the change wiki - User contributions [en]

MediaWiki:Mobile.css

2026-06-13T13:06:04Z

Elie:

/* All CSS here will be loaded for users of the mobile site */

/*==General styling==*/
.mw-parser-output a {text-decoration:underline; text-underline-offset:2px}/*underline links*/
.mw-parser-output a:hover{text-decoration-thickness:2px;text-decoration-skip-ink:none}
a.selflink{text-decoration:none}
a.new{color:#B55} /* faded red for red links, we don't want too much visual attention on them */
.mw-parser-output li,
.mw-parser-output li:last-child{line-height:1.4em; margin-bottom:0.6em}/*spacing for bullet points*/
.wikitable ul { margin:0 0 0 0.7em } /* less spacing for bullet points in tables */
.wikitable li { margin:0 }

/*==Expandables and calculations==*/
.xpContent{display:none; color:#090; cursor:crosshair}
.ppContent{display:none; position:absolute; padding:0.5em; border:1px solid; box-shadow:0 0 1em #999; cursor:crosshair; background:#FFFFF3; z-index:2}
.dp {display:none; position:absolute; padding:0.5em; border:1px solid; box-shadow:0 0 1em #999; cursor:crosshair; background:#FFFFF3; z-index:2}
.dpVar {display:none; position:absolute; padding:0.5em; border:1px solid; box-shadow:0 0 1em #999; cursor:crosshair; background:#FFFFF3; z-index:2}
.dp0{font-family:monospace,sans-serif; color:#333; font-weight:normal}
.dp1{font-family:monospace,sans-serif; color:#C00; font-weight:bold}
.dp2{font-family:serif; color:#000; font-weight:normal}
.dp3{font-family:serif; color:#333; font-weight:normal; font-size:84%; padding:0.8em 0 0 0.4em}
.calc{font-family:monospace,sans-serif; background:#CFC; border-bottom:1px solid #CCC}
.calc>a {text-decoration-style:dotted; text-underline-offset:3px; text-decoration-skip-ink:none}
.calc>a:hover{text-decoration-style:solid}
.ecalc{display:none}
.forMore{color:#090; cursor:pointer; text-decoration:underline; text-underline-offset:3px; text-decoration-style:dotted}
.forMore:hover{text-decoration-style:solid}

/*==File graph==*/
.fileGraph{position:relative; width:100%; height:28em; border:1px dashed grey; background:#FFFFF3; user-select:none}
.fgNode{position:absolute; border:1px solid; padding:0 0.25em; background:#FFF; box-shadow:0 0 0.1em #333; transform:translate(-50%,0%); z-index:1}
.fgConnect{display:none; position:absolute; border:1px solid; background:#FFF; font-family:sans-serif; font-size:75%; transform-origin:0% 50%; white-space:nowrap; overflow:hidden}

/*==Considerations table==*/
.consideration-summary { margin:-0.125em 0 0.125em 1em; display:list-item; list-style:square inside; font-style:italic; color:#652; text-decoration:underline #CD0}

/*==Text levels==*/
pre.levels { padding:0.125em }

/*==Word changers==*/
.altOuter {color:#8F8; cursor:pointer; display:none}
.altInner {color:#080; border:1px solid #EEE}

/*==MediaWiki workarounds==*/

.fullWidth img { width:100%; height:auto } /* fitting an image to full page width on desktop mode (i dont know why tf this isn't already a built-in option in mediawiki tbh): */

.no-bold-th th { font-weight:normal } /* sometimes you don't want table headers to be bolded, because some other cells need the emphasis instead */

.mw-parser-output dl {margin-left:0}
.mw-parser-output dd {margin-left:1em} /* some skins do some bullshit that ruins my content's indenting. Undo that shit */

MediaWiki:Common.css

2026-06-13T13:05:30Z

Elie:

/* CSS placed here will be applied to all skins */

/*==General styling==*/
.mw-parser-output a {text-decoration:underline; text-underline-offset:2px}/*underline links*/
.mw-parser-output a:hover{text-decoration-thickness:2px;text-decoration-skip-ink:none}
a.selflink{text-decoration:none}
a.new{color:#B55} /* faded red for red links, we don't want too much visual attention on them */
.mw-parser-output li,
.mw-parser-output li:last-child{line-height:1.4em; margin-bottom:0.6em}/*spacing for bullet points*/
.wikitable ul { margin:0 0 0 0.7em } /* less spacing for bullet points in tables */
.wikitable li { margin:0 }

/*==Expandables and calculations==*/
.xpContent{display:none; color:#090; cursor:crosshair}
.ppContent{display:none; position:absolute; padding:0.5em; border:1px solid; box-shadow:0 0 1em #999; cursor:crosshair; background:#FFFFF3; z-index:2}
.dp {display:none; position:absolute; padding:0.5em; border:1px solid; box-shadow:0 0 1em #999; cursor:crosshair; background:#FFFFF3; z-index:2}
.dpVar {display:none; position:absolute; padding:0.5em; border:1px solid; box-shadow:0 0 1em #999; cursor:crosshair; background:#FFFFF3; z-index:2}
.dp0{font-family:monospace,sans-serif; color:#333; font-weight:normal}
.dp1{font-family:monospace,sans-serif; color:#C00; font-weight:bold}
.dp2{font-family:serif; color:#000; font-weight:normal}
.dp3{font-family:serif; color:#333; font-weight:normal; font-size:84%; padding:0.8em 0 0 0.4em}
.calc{font-family:monospace,sans-serif; background:#CFC; border-bottom:1px solid #CCC}
.calc>a {text-decoration-style:dotted; text-underline-offset:3px; text-decoration-skip-ink:none}
.calc>a:hover{text-decoration-style:solid}
.ecalc{display:none}
.forMore{color:#090; cursor:pointer; text-decoration:underline; text-underline-offset:3px; text-decoration-style:dotted}
.forMore:hover{text-decoration-style:solid}

/*==File graph==*/
.fileGraph{position:relative; width:100%; height:28em; border:1px dashed grey; background:#FFFFF3; user-select:none}
.fgNode{position:absolute; border:1px solid; padding:0 0.25em; background:#FFF; box-shadow:0 0 0.1em #333; transform:translate(-50%,0%); z-index:1}
.fgConnect{display:none; position:absolute; border:1px solid; background:#FFF; font-family:sans-serif; font-size:75%; transform-origin:0% 50%; white-space:nowrap; overflow:hidden}

/*==Considerations table==*/
.consideration-summary { margin:-0.125em 0 0.125em 1em; display:list-item; list-style:square inside; font-style:italic; color:#652; text-decoration:underline #CD0}

/*==Text levels==*/
pre.levels { padding:0.125em }

/*==Word changers==*/
.altOuter {color:#8F8; cursor:pointer; display:none}
.altInner {color:#080; border:1px solid #EEE}

/*==MediaWiki workarounds==*/

.fullWidth img { width:100%; height:auto } /* fitting an image to full page width on desktop mode (i dont know why tf this isn't already a built-in option in mediawiki tbh): */

.no-bold-th th { font-weight:normal } /* sometimes you don't want table headers to be bolded, because some other cells need the emphasis instead */

.mw-parser-output dl {margin-left:0}
.mw-parser-output dd {margin-left:1em} /* some skins do some bullshit that ruins my content's indenting. Undo that shit */

/*==Talk pages==*/

/* add separation between comments (relies on DiscussionTools extension) */
.ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons {
font-weight:bold;
font-size: 111%;
line-height: 88%;
}
.ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons:after {
content:'-';
color:#FFF0;
display:block;
margin-right:75%;
border-top:1px dashed #0FF;
border-image:linear-gradient(to right, #0FF, #FFF0) 1;
line-height:188%;
}
.ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled dd {
padding-left:1em;
}
.ext-discussiontools-visualenhancements-enabled .ext-discussiontools-init-section {
border-top:2px solid #000;
}
.ext-discussiontools-init-section h2:not(
.ext-discussiontools-visualenhancements-enabled .ext-discussiontools-init-section h2) {
background:#CCC; border:none;
}

/*==Themes for Vector 2022 skin==*/

/* simple light green theme */
a.mw-logo { color:#00F }
#pt-login-2 > a:nth-child(1) { color:#00F }
#pt-userpage-2 > a:nth-child(1) { color:#00F }
body.skin-vector-2022 { background:#CCC }
div.mw-footer-container { background:#CFC;padding-bottom:1em }
div.vector-header-container:nth-child(2) { background:#CFC; border-bottom:1px solid #CCC }
div.vector-header-container.vector-sticky-header-container{ border-bottom:1px solid #999;
background:#EEE; }

/* girly theme (becomes a rave theme if you invert the colors of your screen - one day if i have time i'll make a dark theme that's equal to the inverse)
a.mw-logo { color:#000; text-shadow:0 0 0.25em #FFF }
#pt-login-2 > a:nth-child(1) { color:#000; text-shadow:0 0 0.25em #FFF }
#pt-userpage-2 > a:nth-child(1) { color:#000; text-shadow:0 0 0.25em #FFF }
body.skin-vector-2022
{ background:linear-gradient(#FF9,#006); background-attachment:fixed }
div.mw-footer-container
{ background:#FCF }
div.vector-header-container:nth-child(2)
{ background:linear-gradient(#FFF,#F0F,#FFF); border:none }
div.vector-header-container.vector-sticky-header-container
{ border-bottom:1px solid #999; background:#EEE }
*/

/* unicorn theme
a.mw-logo { color:#FFF; text-shadow:0 0 0.5em #000 }
#pt-login-2 > a:nth-child(1) { color:#FFF; text-shadow:0 0 0.5em #000 }
#pt-userpage-2 > a:nth-child(1) { color:#FFF; text-shadow:0 0 0.5em #000 }
body.skin-vector-2022 { background:#DBF }
div.mw-footer-container{ background:#FBD }
div.vector-header-container:nth-child(2)
{ background:linear-gradient(#F00,#FF0,#0D0,#07F,#70F) }
div.vector-header-container.vector-sticky-header-container
{ border-bottom:1px solid #999; background:#EEE }
*/

/* RGB theme (unfinished)
body.skin-vector-2022 { background:linear-gradient(#FFF,#000,#000,#000,#000,#000,#F00,#000,#000,#0F0,#000,#000,#00F,#000,#000,#000,#000,#000,#FFF); background-attachment:fixed }
*/

/*==Themes for Legacy Vector skin==*/

/* sunrise theme:
body {background-image:linear-gradient(#FFF 0%, #FFF 11%, #009 14%, #FF9 97%, #FFC 100%);background-color:#FFC;background-repeat:no-repeat}
#content{background-color:#FFF}
#mw-panel {color:#FFF}
#mw-panel a {color:#FFF}
#mw-panel h3{color:#FFF}
*/
/* daylight theme:
body {background-image:linear-gradient(#ADF,#FDA);background-attachment:fixed}
#content{background-color:#FFF}
*/
/* fog theme:
body {background-image:linear-gradient(#BBB,#FFF);background-color:#FFF;background-repeat:no-repeat}
#content{background-color:#FFF}
*/
/* silver theme:
body {background-image:linear-gradient(#FFF,#AAA);background-attachment:fixed}
#content{background-color:#FFF}
*/
/* RGB theme:
body {background-image:linear-gradient(#FFF 0%, #FFF 10%, #000 15%, #000 50%, #F00 55%, #000 60%, #000 65%, #0F0 70%, #000 75%, #000 80%, #00F 85%, #000 90%, #000 95%, #FFF 100%);background-color:#FFF;background-repeat:no-repeat; position:relative; z-index:1}
#content{background-color:#FFF; box-shadow:0em 0em 0.25em #000}
#mw-panel {color:#999; font-weight:bold; text-shadow:0 0 0.25em #000}
#mw-panel a {color:#0F0; font-weight:bold; text-shadow:0 0 0.25em #000}
#mw-panel h3{color:#FFF; font-weight:bold; text-shadow:0 0 0.25em #000}
#footer {background-color:#FFFFFFC0; position:relative; z-index:-1; padding-bottom:3em}
#footer ul li a{background-color:#FFFFFF80; position:relative; z-index:1}
*/

Hydrogen gas/Pressurized storage

2026-06-12T15:24:29Z

Elie: /* Aluminum alloy 6061-T6 */

==How much material for the container: Estimating the ''absolute bare minimum'' required==

Using physics, there is a general formula to estimate the theoretical minimum material-to-gas ratio, for ''any material'' containing ''any gas'' at high pressure.

a = 1.5 R T D / (S M)

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2" |Parameters
|-
|<code>a</code>
|The '''ratio''' we're calculating {{minor|'''Mass''' of the container, divided by the '''mass''' of the gas}}
|-
|<code>R</code>
|{{light|''The universal gas constant''}} (<code>8.3144626 J/K/mol</code>) {{minor|The same constant that's used in the ''Ideal Gas Law'' in physics (PV<nowiki>=</nowiki>nRT)}}
|-
|<code>T</code>
|{{minor| }} The maximum storage '''temperature''' {{minor|Relative to ''absolute zero'' (−273°C)}}
|-
|<code>D</code>
|The '''density''' of the material the container is made of
|-
|<code>S</code>
|The '''tensile strength''' of the material the container is made of
|-
|<code>M</code>
|The '''''molar'' mass''' of the gas {{minor|Which, in the case of ''hydrogen gas'' (H2), is about <code>2.02 g/mol</code>}}
|}
<tab name="How this formula was obtained" collapsed>
This is based on the general formula for [https://structx.com/Stress_Strain_006.html Spherical Pressure Vessel - Hoop Stress]:
s = P r / (2 t)
* 's' being the tensile ''hoop stress'' on the material
* 'P' being the pressure of the gas
* 'r' being the  radius of the container
* 't' being the thickness of the container wall

'''For our case,''' let's assume that the container is pressurized to its limit - in other words, 's' is also the ''tensile yield strength'' of the material.

We can rearrange the formula to get the wall thickness of the container:
t = P r / (2 s)

From there, we can get the volume of the container '''material''', approximately:
Vmat = 4 pi r^2 * t
(Area of the sphere, times thickness)

Meanwhile the volume of the '''gas''' is:
Vgas = (4/3)pi r^3
(Volume of the sphere)

Therefore, the material-to-gas ratio '''BY VOLUME''' is:
Vmat / Vgas
= 3t / r
= 1.5 P/s
(Yes, everything cancels out except for 'P' and 's'. The ratio is the same '''no matter the size of the container.''')

But we want the material-to-gas ratio '''BY MASS''' instead, so:
Mmat / Mgas = Vmat / Vgas * Dmat / Dgas
= 1.5 P/s * Dmat / Dgas

First we need to know the density of the gas (via the ''gas law'' in physics):
Dgas = P M / R T
* 'P' is the pressure as used earlier
* 'M' is the ''molar mass'' of the gas molecules (chemistry)
* 'R' is the universal ''gas constant''
* 'T' is the temperature

From here, the final equation is:
Mmat / Mgas = 1.5 R T Dmat / (s M)
(Yes, 'P' cancels out of the equation. The ratio is the same '''no matter the pressure of the gas.''')

Note that there is '''no safety factor''' in this equation. There is also no accounting for the materials in the gas valve etc. It calculates only the '''theoretical minimum''' material. In real life, you will need a bit more.

{{pn-block|TALK:
* Yes I know it's awkward to use 'M' for molar mass and 'Mgas' for the total mass.
* Yes I know I didn't formally define 'Dmat' but whatever, hopefully people can infer.
* Yes I know that ''relative'' pressure (actual gas pressure minus 1 atm) is what really matters - but that would make the formula more complicated. The simpler formula above works fine if the we assume that the gas is ''significantly'' pressurized. For low pressures close to 1 atm (i.e. a simple balloon, not what this page is about), we could use less material in theory.
}}
</tab>

''Let's apply this formula to a few possible cases below:''

{{dp
|T
|tempC(60)
|Maximum storage temperature
|Chose 60°C because it's just above the highest weather temperature ever recorded on Earth. This doesn't account for future climate change or improper storage of the tanks. In any worst case, the tanks should be designed to vent the gas (or deform?) rather than explode, hopefully.
}}
{{dp
|M
|2.01588 g/mol
|Molar mass of hydrogen gas (H2)
}}

===Stainless steel===
{{dp
|stainless_steel.density
|7.80 g/cc
|Density (weight per volume) of 10.9 alloy steel
|[https://matweb.com/search/datasheet.aspx?matguid{{=}}e11dcacd0b2c4cdeae2e2c1b5b0816a1&ckck{{=}}1 Ovako ISO 898 grade 10.9 34CrNiMo6 (6499) Steel, +QT]
}}
{{dp
|stainless_steel.yield_strength
|897 N/mm^2
|Tensile yield strength of the stainless steel
|Using "10.9 alloy steel" http://www.volksbolts.com/faq/basics.htm
}}
{{calc
|1.5 R T stainless_steel.density / (stainless_steel.yield_strength M)
||||^ Material-to-gas ratio
}}

Stainless steel contains more than just iron & carbon. It also contains nickel & chromium, which are scarcer resources. {{pn|Need to do an analysis regarding mineral reserves.}}

===Aluminum===
{{dp
|aluminum.density
|2.7 g/cc
|Density (weight per volume) of aluminum
|[http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Tables/density.html Densities of common substances - HyperPhysics]
}}
{{dp
|aluminum.yield_strength
|95 N/mm^2
|Tensile yield strength of aluminum
|[http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/permot3.html Young's Modulus - HyperPhysics]
}}
{{calc
|1.5 R T aluminum.density / (aluminum.yield_strength M)
||||^ Material-to-gas ratio
}}

===Aluminum alloy 6061-T6===
{{dp
|aluminum_6061_T6.density
|2.7 g/cc
|Density (weight per volume) of aluminum alloy 6061-T6
|[https://asm.matweb.com/search/specificmaterial.asp?bassnum{{=}}ma6061t6 ASM Material Data Sheet]
}}
{{dp
|aluminum_6061_T6.yield_strength
|276 N/mm^2
|Tensile yield strength of aluminum alloy 6061-T6
|[https://asm.matweb.com/search/specificmaterial.asp?bassnum{{=}}ma6061t6 ASM Material Data Sheet]
}}
{{calc
|1.5 R T aluminum_6061_T6.density / (aluminum_6061_T6.yield_strength M)
||||^ Material-to-gas ratio
}}

This alloy is quite low in any metals that might be scarce. [https://asm.matweb.com/search/specificmaterial.asp?bassnum=ma6061t6 Alloy composition]:
{|class=wikitable
!Element
!Percent by weight
|-
|Al
|95.8 - 98.6
|-
|Cr
|0.04 - 0.35
|-
|Cu
|0.15 - 0.4
|-
|Fe
|Max 0.7
|-
|Mg
|0.8 - 1.2
|-
|Mn
|Max 0.15
|-
|Other, each
|Max 0.05
|-
|Other, total
|Max 0.15
|-
|Si
|0.4 - 0.8
|-
|Ti
|Max 0.15
|-
|Zn
|Max 0.25
|}

2026-05-07T03:30:07Z

Elie: Elie moved page Archive:000/Conventional nuclear power to Conventional nuclear power without leaving a redirect: revert

[[File:Nuclear Power Plant Cattenom.jpg|thumb|Nuclear power plant]]

[[Category:Energy sources]]

Currently, all of the world's nuclear power plants{{x|any exceptions are ''experimental'' and not scalable yet (as of 2024)}} run on '''conventional nuclear power''': [[nuclear fission]] that depends heavily on uranium-235.

{{considerations}} __NOTOC__

==Scarcity of uranium-235==
{{basically|Major limitation|bad}}
[[File:Shinarump Mine Waste Rock.jpg|thumb|Uranium occurs naturally as a mix of two isotopes: uranium-235 '''(0.7%)''' and uranium-238 '''(99.3%)'''.]]

{{dp
|<nowiki>uranium.reserves</nowiki>
|<nowiki>8.070 million tonnes uranium_natural</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Global uranium mineral reserves, measured in energy units</nowiki>
|<nowiki>The calculator understands "tonnes uranium_natural" as an energy unit. It's based on the fact that natural uranium is just 0.7% uranium-235 (the isotope we extract energy from). The rest is uranium-238, which isn't useful for energy unless we use breeder reactors.</nowiki> <nowiki>
</nowiki> <nowiki>
Citation:</nowiki> <nowiki>
Uranium 2020: Resources, Production and Demand ('Red Book')</nowiki> <nowiki>
"The total recoverable identified resources to $260/kg U is 8.070 million tonnes U."</nowiki> <nowiki>
</nowiki>
}}
{{dp
|<nowiki>nuclear_power_plant.efficiency</nowiki>
|<nowiki>33%</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Electrical output divided by the heat energy of the nuclear reactor</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Nuclear power plants convert heat (from uranium-235, currently) into electricity. The process is approximately 33% efficient.</nowiki> <nowiki>
</nowiki> <nowiki>
Citation: Key World Energy Statistics 2020 (IEA report) - Page 73 - Glossary - Nuclear</nowiki>
}}
{{dp
|<nowiki>energy.tfc</nowiki>
|<nowiki>9937.70 Mtoe/year</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Global energy usage - total final consumption (TFC)</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Includes: fuel (80.7%) + electricity (19.3%) AFTER it is generated.</nowiki> <nowiki>
</nowiki> <nowiki>
Does not include the fuel used in generating electricity. See [energy.tes] for that.</nowiki> <nowiki>
</nowiki> <nowiki>
Citation: "Key World Energy Statistics 2020" IEA</nowiki> <nowiki>
- Page 47 - Simplified energy balance table - World energy balance, 2018</nowiki>
}}

'''This''' is the main reason why nuclear power only provides a '''small fraction''' of the world's [[energy]]. Uranium-235 is a scarce mineral - far more scarce than [[fossil fuels]].

If all the world's energy were to come from nuclear, we'd '''run out''' of uranium-235 in about '''4 years.'''
{{p2|(see maths)|{{calc|uranium.reserves * nuclear_power_plant.efficiency|years energy.tfc|||}} }}
{{p2|(more)|~ We'd run out even faster [[energy demand scenarios|if all nations were developed]]. ~ In either case, conventional nuclear power can't really meet global energy demands. Best case, it might be sufficient for [[baseload]] electricity only (which is a smaller part of total [[energy demand]]).}}


'''Possible solutions:'''
* [[Breeder reactors]], to make use of uranium-238, which is over 100 times more abundant.

'''FAQ:''' 
* "What about obtaining uranium from seawater? I heard that's more abundant?"
** The amount of energy required to extract [[uranium from seawater]] is high. The only way to [[EROI|get back more energy than we put in]] is if we use the uranium-238 part of it. Conventional nuclear power does not.


==Nuclear waste==
{{basically|Long-term problem}}

Since the reactors only make use of the uranium-235 component, the remaining matter becomes "spent fuel" and must be disposed of. This nuclear waste is still radioactive enough to cause harm to anyone exposed to it without protective equipment. It remains this way for millions of years.


'''Possible solutions:'''
* [[Breeder reactors]], which could keep obtaining energy from the spent fuel (mostly uranium-238) until there's barely any radioactive waste left at all.

==Risk of meltdowns==
{{basically|Generally manageable}}
Meltdowns have happened twice in history: [[Chernobyl]] and [[Fukushima]]. Nuclear plants have since been designed to not repeat the mistakes of the past. {{en}} Then again, some people say there are still unknown risks. [discussion needed]


==Weapons proliferation==
{{basically|Under control}}
Reactors are well designed to prevent people from stealing uranium to make thermonuclear bombs. Governments of course still have nuclear warheads, which is still a [[nuclear war|major issue in itself]].

Decarbonize the energy supply

2026-05-06T11:30:38Z

Elie: Added space between headings

[[File:energy-usage-by-source.png|thumb|'''Status quo:''' The vast majority of the world's energy comes from fossil fuels. Don't be <s>fooled</s> misled by countries claiming "most of our electricity is renewable". Electricity is only one piece of the energy pie. Most cars & trucks are not electric. Most industries are not fully electric. When you look at the big picture, it's clear that we still have a long way to go.]]
How to produce enough {{p2|energy|This includes more than just the status-quo of electricity production. It also includes all the additional electricity that would be needed to replace fossil fuels in vehicles and in industries.}} (for the world) without burning [[fossil fuels]]?

{{minor|''This page is about the ongoing challenges involved.''}}

==The '''renewables''' approach {{light|(+ energy storage)}}==
* [[Solar]] & [[wind power]] would have to be the main energy sources in ''most'' parts of the world.
** Most people don't live near regions suitable for [[hydropower]] or [[geothermal power]]. {{talk|TODO: link to discussions about what regions they ''are'' suitable}}
** [[Biofuels]] are a no-go, because they cause global [[hunger]] and [[deforestation]].  [[Biomass waste]] is a fine alternative, but its production rate is [[How much biomass waste is there?|fundamentally small]] compared to the fossil fuels we're trying to replace.



* Most solar panels today would probably be '''unsustainable''' or even impossible to scale up, due to having [[solar panel minerals|too many scarce minerals in them]].
** [[solar panels made of abundant materials|''See discussion on alternatives to this.'']]

* Batteries [[How much short-term energy storage for solar?|''might'' be scalable enough]] to smooth out the '''day/night''' cycle of solar. {{x|Best bet would be either [[sodium-ion]] or [[iron redox flow batteries]].}} {{talk|Re-work this section and include links like [[Can rooftop solar alone provide enough heating and cooling?]]}}
** But the '''seasonal''' fluctuations of wind & solar [[How much seasonal energy storage?|probably need ''far more'' energy storage capacity]].
*** [[What could provide enough seasonal energy storage?|''See discussion on other energy storage types - whether any could provide enough capacity.'']]

 More discussions:
* [[Is there enough land to scale up wind power?]] (without causing significant ecological damage)?

==The '''nuclear''' approach==
Of all the different types of nuclear power, {{b|#6FF|'''thorium power'''}} seems to be the best bet:

{|class='wikitable'
!rowspan='2' |Type of nuclear power
!colspan='3' |Problems if scaled up
|-
!Fuel scarcity
!Weapons proliferation
!Nuclear waste
|-
|[[Conventional nuclear power]] {{light|(status quo)}}
|style="background:#F66"|Problem
|Low risk
|style="background:#F66"|Problem
|-
|Conventional small nuclear reactors
|style="background:#F66"|Problem
|style="background:#F66"|High risk
|style="background:#F66"|Problem
|-
|Uranium-238 breeder reactors {{p|Additional benefit: Uranium-238 reactors would make use of existing nuclear waste, which has been left over from decades of conventional nuclear power.}}
|Abundant
|style="background:#F66"|High risk
|Almost none
|-
|style="background:#6FF"|'''Thorium-232 breeder reactors'''
|style="background:#6FF"|'''Abundant'''
|style="background:#6FF"|'''Low risk'''
|style="background:#6FF"|'''Almost none'''
|-
|[[Fusion]] {{b|#F66|(not viable yet)}}
|Abundant
|Low risk
|Almost none

|}

Actions / discussions / next steps:
* [[Why isn't thorium power a thing yet?]]
* [[Would small (shipping-container-sized) thorium reactors be viable?]]

=='''Vehicles''' {{light|- possible options}}==
===Battery-based electric vehicles (EVs)===
* Most EVs today use [[lithium-ion batteries (NMC type)]]. '''Scaling these up is''' [[Minerals if all vehicles were electric (NMC lithium-ion)|'''unsustainable''' due to the amount of '''cobalt''' in them]]. {{talk|Need to mention 3 issues about cobalt (put this on the linked page maybe): Child labor, scarcity, and the possibility of mining the ocean floor (since conventional mining wouldn't be able to produce enough to make all cars electric). All this would be even worse if cobalt isn't fully recovered in EV battery recycling.}}
** Best alternatives ([[types of EV batteries|so far]]) hold somewhat less of a charge (i.e. the vehicle gets less {{p2|range|"Range" refers to the distance the vehicle can travel after 1 full charge.}}). {{talk|TODO: Add to this page a simple comparison between NMC, LFP and sodium-ion, in terms of typical expected EV range.}}
*** [[LFP batteries]] are cobalt-free but still lithium-based. Lithium scarcity [[Minerals if all vehicles were electric (LFP batteries)|would be somewhat a problem]] but not as bad as cobalt.
*** '''[[Sodium-ion batteries]]''' are made from abundant materials - they don't have any mineral-scarcity problem ([[Do we know for sure that sodium-ion batteries avoid mineral scarcity?|probably]]). But they hold even less of a charge than LFP.
**** Sodium-ion batteries are [[status quo of sodium-ion batteries|quite new to the market]] (in 2024), and the hope is that they'll become a lot cheaper than existing batteries. That way, [[short-range EVs|EVs could be cheap and durable]], with the only tradeoff being the lack of range.{{qn}} Probably still good enough for city/suburban living.
*** For '''city buses''': LFP and sodium-ion are both perfectly fine. The {{p2|lower ''energy-per-weight''|i.e. the fact that more battery mass is needed to hold the same amount of electricity}} is not a problem, because buses need extra weight at the bottom anyway for stability.

 Actions/discussions:
* [[Next steps for sodium-ion batteries]] {{talk|Is it true that sodium-ion EVs are available in China already, and just not in North America? If sodium-ion batteries are on the market now, how does their cost compare to lithium-based batteries so far?}}
* [[How well are EV batteries recycled?]]

===Hydrogen-powered vehicles===
* [[Hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles]] would be '''unsustainable''' to scale up, because of the [[PGMs required for hydrogen production vs for fuel cell vehicles|amount of platinum & palladium in the fuel cells]]. {{talk|This page needs to mention: Hydrogen ''production'' also requires these same metals but it [[PGMs required for hydrogen production vs for fuel cell vehicles|can be done with much less of them]] and thus could probably be done sustainably.}}
* [[Hydrogen combustion vehicles]] don't have this problem, but their fuel-efficiency is lower.{{qn}} {{talk|How bad would this be an issue if renewables or nuclear were to be the main energy sources?}} {{talk|Discussion needed: Estimate: How much hydrogen would have to be stored (stocked) at any given time, for the supply chain to work (let's say if it's all produced through nuclear power)? Probably a lot less than what it would take to smooth out the seasonality of renewables - I need to write a page explaining why.}}

===Ammonia-powered vehicles===
{{empty}} {{talk|Research needed: How does ammonia compare to hydrogen in terms of:{{pbr}}* Energy-efficiency of ammonia ''production''{{pbr}}* Energy-efficiency of ammonia ''fuel cells''{{pbr}}* Catalyst metals required in ammonia ''production'' '''and''' in ammonia ''fuel cells''. Which metals and how much of them?{{pbr}}* Storage (mass of container materials required per unit of energy stored){{pbr}} Note that this research is ''also'' needed for assessing the viability of using ammonia energy storage to smooth out the seasonal variations of renewables.}}

==More discussions==
* [[How much electricity would it take?]]


==See also==
* [[Phase out disposable plastic]] {{talk|Should add somewhere that besides energy & plastic, there are other uses of fossil fuels. Most of these uses '''do not''' need to be phased out (and they are also a '''relatively small fraction''' of the world's fossil fuel consumption). This talking point is important for debunking memes about "where would we be without oil!" etc.}}

Decarbonize the energy supply

Elie: I made this awhile back (Archive:000/Electric vehicles/Fossil fuel powered) and i wasnt sure if i liked it enough to publish, but i think it's maybe good enough for now

Stop climate change

2026-02-26T20:23:47Z

Elie: /* Things we must do */

[[File:Emissions-by-sector-–-pie-charts.png|thumb]]
Fossil fuels are still the world's main energy source, and still the main cause of climate change.

# We need to '''[[decarbonize the energy supply|switch to other energy sources]]''', but:
# They each [[decarbonize the energy supply|have their own limitations and environmental impacts]] as well. So we also need to '''not use so much energy in the first place.''' Not the old "save energy by turning off the lights" rhetoric which misses the big picture. Most of the world's energy usage is actually for:
#* Producing & transporting goods (i.e. stuff people buy)
#* Driving cars
#* Heating & cooling homes / buildings

==Things we must do==
===Reduce the need for driving===
* [[Make neighborhoods walkable]]
===Produce less stuff===

====Electronics====
* [[Right to repair]]
* [[Stop planned obsolescence]]
====Food-related====

Even though agriculture isn't the ''biggest'' source of carbon emissions, it '''is''' the biggest [[habitat loss|destroyer of wildlife]]. We need to feed the world using less resources:
* [[Stop food waste]]
* [[Stop biofuels]]
* [[Make the food supply more plant-based]]
* [[Improve crop yields]] in some cases
====Other====
* [[Stop home waste]]
* [[Make clothes last longer]]? {{talk|Need to distinguish between "they should manufacture stuff better quality" (which might actually have a ''higher'' environmental footprint in some cases), vs "how make your clothes last longer even when they're cheap. Repair, take care, etc." (which is probably what we really need. Some of it is lifestyle choices, but I bet some systemic changes could help too, like better access to tools for repairs, and more education on how to use them).}}

===Heating & cooling===
We're still discussing what solutions are really suitable for the average home or building. [[How much less energy could be used in heating & cooling buildings, in most cases?|Join the discussion.]]

==Note==
''Systemic changes'' might not be enough without some ''lifestyle changes''. A lot of middle-class people will still have to choose to consume less, in some ways.
{{talk|TO DO: Add specific examples of wasteful consumption habits. Talk about how to do better.}}
{{talk|Half of emissions come from the richest 10% of the world. This ''includes'' '''most people''' who live in "first world" countries. [[Image:carbon-inequality1.png|link=]]}}
But it's not as bad as it sounds. We can still have nice things, just not replace them so often.

Economic degrowth shouldn't reduce quality of life. It has to be done the right way. It can actually make our lives better by enabling us to [[shorten the work week and lower the cost of living|work less]].

Stop climate change

2026-02-26T20:01:26Z

Elie: /* Other */

[[File:Emissions-by-sector-–-pie-charts.png|thumb]]
Fossil fuels are still the world's main energy source, and still the main cause of climate change.

# We need to '''[[decarbonize the energy supply|switch to other energy sources]]''', but:
# They each [[decarbonize the energy supply|have their own limitations and environmental impacts]] as well. So we also need to '''not use so much energy in the first place.''' Not the old "save energy by turning off the lights" rhetoric which misses the big picture. Most of the world's energy usage is actually for:
#* Producing & transporting goods (i.e. stuff people buy)
#* Driving cars
#* Heating & cooling homes / buildings

==Things we must do==
===Reduce the need for driving===
* [[Make neighborhoods walkable]]
===Produce less stuff===
{{preamble|(without sacrificing quality of life)}}
====Electronics====
* [[Right to repair]]
* [[Stop planned obsolescence]]
====Food-related====

Even though agriculture isn't the ''biggest'' source of carbon emissions, it '''is''' the biggest [[habitat loss|destroyer of wildlife]]. We need to feed the world using less resources:
* [[Stop food waste]]
* [[Stop biofuels]]
* [[Make the food supply more plant-based]]
* [[Improve crop yields]] in some cases
====Other====
* [[Stop home waste]]
* [[Make clothes last longer]]? {{talk|Need to distinguish between "they should manufacture stuff better quality" (which might actually have a ''higher'' environmental footprint in some cases), vs "how make your clothes last longer even when they're cheap. Repair, take care, etc." (which is probably what we really need. Some of it is lifestyle choices, but I bet some systemic changes could help too, like better access to tools for repairs, and more education on how to use them).}}
'''Note:''' ''Systemic changes'' are probably not enough without some ''lifestyle changes''. A lot of middle-class people will still have to choose to consume less, in some ways.
{{talk|TO DO: Add specific examples of wasteful consumption habits. Talk about how to do better.}}
{{talk|Half of emissions come from the richest 10% of the world. This ''includes'' '''most people''' who live in "first world" countries. [[Image:carbon-inequality1.png|link=]]}}
We can still have nice things, just not replace them so often.

===Heating & cooling===
We're still discussing what solutions are really suitable for the average home or building. [[How much less energy could be used in heating & cooling buildings, in most cases?|Join the discussion.]]