Archive:000/Electric vehicles - Revision history

Elie: Elie moved page Electric vehicles to Archive:000/Electric vehicles without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor

2024-10-26T20:29:38Z

Elie moved page Electric vehicles to Archive:000/Electric vehicles without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:29, 26 October 2024
(No difference)

Elie at 04:17, 16 October 2023

2023-10-16T04:17:54Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:17, 16 October 2023
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	[[File:ghg-pie-chart.png\|thumb]]		[[File:BYD Yuan Plus CRI 08 2022 7429.jpg\|thumb\|An electric car and charger]]
			[[File:ghg-pie-chart.png\|thumb\|16% of the world's [[greenhouse gases\|GHG]] emissions are from transportation.]]
	'''Problem:''' Most vehicles today run on gasoline, diesel, or other [[fossil fuels]] that cause [[climate change]].		'''Problem:''' Most vehicles today run on gasoline, diesel, or other [[fossil fuels]] that cause [[climate change]].
	~~{{minor\|About 16% of the world's [[GHG]] emissions are due to vehicles.}}~~

	'''''Possible'' solution:''' ~~Make~~ vehicles ~~electric~~. But ~~this comes with~~ some serious challenges that must be dealt with first, before ~~electric vehicles (~~EVs) can be mass-produced enough to actually make a difference for the planet.		'''''Possible'' solution:''' Electric vehicles (EVs). But there are some serious challenges that must be dealt with first, before EVs can be mass-produced enough to actually make a difference for the planet.

	{{considerations}}		{{considerations}} __NOTOC__

	==Status quo==		==Status quo==
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	** [[Electric trucks]] (semi trucks / freight trucks)		** [[Electric trucks]] (semi trucks / freight trucks)

	~~==Considerations==~~
	===Battery minerals===		----
			__TOC__

			==Battery minerals==
	{{sum\|Major problem\|bad}}		{{sum\|Major problem\|bad}}
	The batteries in today's EVs contain large amounts of metals that are too scarce. This makes EVs expensive and unscalable.		The batteries in today's EVs contain large amounts of metals that are too scarce. This makes EVs expensive and unscalable.
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	* The battery industry needs to get its s**t together and start making low-cost [[sodium-ion batteries]] (even if they aren't as good as lithium-ion).		* The battery industry needs to get its s**t together and start making low-cost [[sodium-ion batteries]] (even if they aren't as good as lithium-ion).

	{{minor\|<br />[[Sodium-ion batteries]] could ~~potentially~~ be built with ~~only~~ abundant materials. But ~~none~~ of ~~these batteries are~~ available on the market ~~today~~. Some companies are investing ~~hundreds of~~ millions of dollars into ''research & development'', trying to make sodium-ion batteries as energy-dense as lithium-ion. But despite all the hype in the news, there's no guarantee that this will ever happen - and if it does, there's no guarantee that the batteries will be cheap. Meanwhile, sodium-ion batteries could already be a "good enough" solution today, if we just accept the fact that they naturally hold less of a charge than lithium-ion. ~~By lowering the~~ expectations a bit, ~~battery manufacturers~~ could be making the first sodium-ion batteries in 6 months from now, instead of in 10 years from now!<br /><br />}}		{{minor\|<br />[[Sodium-ion batteries]] are a good potential solution, because they could be built with abundant materials. But this type of battery isn't even available on the market yet. Some companies are investing millions of dollars into ''research & development'', trying to make sodium-ion batteries as energy-dense as lithium-ion. But despite all the hype in the news, there's no guarantee that this will ever happen - and if it does, there's no guarantee that the batteries will be cheap. Meanwhile, sodium-ion batteries could already be a "good enough" solution today, if we just accept the fact that they naturally hold less of a charge than lithium-ion. If battery manufacturers lowered their expectations a bit, they could be making the first sodium-ion batteries in 6 months from now, instead of in 10 years from now!<br /><br />}}

	Of course there are ''some'' types of EVs that ''have to'' have a long range - for example freight trucks and intercity buses. But maybe if these are the only EVs that use scarce minerals, then there just might be enough minerals to go around.		Of course there are ''some'' types of EVs that ''have to'' have a long range - for example freight trucks and intercity buses. But maybe if these are the only EVs that use scarce minerals, then there just might be enough minerals to go around.
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	For mid-range EVs, [[LFP batteries]] might be good enough. They're still lithium-based, but at least they're cobalt-free - and these batteries are already available on the market today.		For mid-range EVs, [[LFP batteries]] might be good enough. They're still lithium-based, but at least they're cobalt-free - and these batteries are already available on the market today.

	===Generating enough electricity===		==Generating enough electricity==
	{{sum\|Major problem\|bad}}		{{sum\|Major problem\|bad}}
	* Whenever the electricity comes from [[fossil fuels]], electric cars are [[electric vehicles/~~fossil~~ fuel powered\|barely any better than gasoline cars]] ~~when it comes to~~ carbon emissions.		Whenever the electricity comes from [[fossil fuels]], electric cars are [[electric vehicles/Fossil fuel powered\|barely any better than gasoline cars]] (in terms of carbon emissions). This is the case in most parts of the world{{x\|If you're lucky to live in an area with abundant [[hydro]] or [[geothermal electricity]], this might not apply to you ''quite as much''. But even in such a region, people would need to charge their cars during ''off-peak'' hours mostly. If the demand for electricity exceeds the capacity of renewables at any moment, then fossil fuel power plants are needed to make up the difference.}}. Globally, the majority of today's electricity '''does''' come from fossil fuels. Other [[energy sources]] have a hard time scaling up.
	* The majority of the world's electricity does ~~in fact~~ come from fossil fuels. Other [[energy sources]] have a hard time scaling up.
	* For electric vehicles to save the environment, we're going to need a lot more [[solar]], [[wind]], or alternative types of [[nuclear]]. Any of these require overcoming some major [[solar/challenge 1\|challenges]].		For electric vehicles to save the environment, we're going to need a lot more [[solar]], [[wind]], and/or alternative types of [[nuclear]]. Any of these require overcoming some major [[solar/challenge 1\|challenges]].
			<!-- TODO: replace the 'challenges' link with a link to a more general page instead of solar -->
	<!-- TODO: make a map of where in the world are hydro & geothermal power available and not already at maxed-out capacity -->		<!-- TODO: make a map of where in the world are hydro & geothermal power available and not already at maxed-out capacity -->

	===Availability of charging===		==Availability of charging==
	{{sum\|Ongoing progress}}		{{sum\|Ongoing progress}}
	{{empty}}		{{empty}}

	===Rare-earth magnets===		==Rare-earth magnets==
	{{sum\|Reasonable}}		{{sum\|Reasonable}}
	Efficient electric motors need strong magnets, which can only be made with certain minerals known as ''rare-earth elements'' (REEs) {{x\|includes neodymium and 16 other periodic-table elements; in nature, they all tend to occur together in the same parts of the earth}}. Luckily, REEs aren't actually that scarce. Even if all vehicles were electric, we wouldn't even come close to running out of REEs.		Efficient electric motors need strong magnets, which can only be made with certain minerals known as ''rare-earth elements'' (REEs) {{x\|includes neodymium and 16 other periodic-table elements; in nature, they all tend to occur together in the same parts of the earth}}. Luckily, REEs aren't actually that scarce. Even if all vehicles were electric, we wouldn't even come close to running out of REEs.
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	{{minor\|This is true even if all [[energy]] were to come from [[wind]] turbines, which also contain rare-earth magnets.}}		{{minor\|This is true even if all [[energy]] were to come from [[wind]] turbines, which also contain rare-earth magnets.}}

	~~{{pn\|~~TODO: Add the calculations & research that led to this statement.}}		<!-- TODO: Add the calculations & research that led to this statement.-->

Elie: /* Battery minerals */

2023-10-16T02:08:04Z

Battery minerals

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:08, 15 October 2023
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	* [[Hydrogen]] [[fuel cell vehicles]] are based in '''platinum'''-group metals (PGMs), which are also scarce.		* [[Hydrogen]] [[fuel cell vehicles]] are based in '''platinum'''-group metals (PGMs), which are also scarce.

	With either of these technologies~~, if we want to make all cars electric~~, there simply aren't enough minerals available to be mined from the Earth. We need to use some other type of [[energy storage]] instead. This involves tradeoffs.		With either of these technologies, there simply aren't enough minerals available to be mined from the Earth. If we want to make all cars electric, we need to use some other type of [[energy storage]] instead. This involves tradeoffs.

	====Possible solutions====		====Possible solutions====
	* [[~~Sodium~~-~~ion batteries~~]]		{{minor\|To put it simply:}}
	** ~~not available on the market yet~~		* People need to be okay with driving cheap [[short-range EVs]].
	** could potentially be built with only abundant materials		* The battery industry needs to get its s**t together and start making low-cost [[sodium-ion batteries]] (even if they aren't as good as lithium-ion).

	* [[~~LFP~~ batteries]]		{{minor\|<br />[[Sodium-ion batteries]] could potentially be built with only abundant materials. But none of these batteries are available on the market today. Some companies are investing hundreds of millions of dollars into ''research & development'', trying to make sodium-ion batteries as energy-dense as lithium-ion. But despite all the hype in the news, there's no guarantee that this will ever happen - and if it does, there's no guarantee that the batteries will be cheap. Meanwhile, sodium-ion batteries could already be a "good enough" solution today, if we just accept the fact that they naturally hold less of a charge than lithium-ion. By lowering the expectations a bit, battery manufacturers could be making the first sodium-ion batteries in 6 months from now, instead of in 10 years from now!<br /><br />}}
	** available on the market
	** cobalt-~~free, but still based in~~ lithium
	*** {{minor\|in ~~other words~~, ~~more scalable but still not as scalable as~~ we~~'d like~~.}}

	~~The main problem with these~~ types of ~~batteries is~~ that ~~they hold less of~~ a ~~charge~~ - ~~in other words, the vehicle would have [[short-range EVs\|less range]]~~. But ~~at least it would be more affordable.{{qn}} In~~ the ~~case of electric cars~~, ~~this compromise~~ might ~~actually~~ be ~~fine if the average buyer is okay with it~~.		Of course there are ''some'' types of EVs that ''have to'' have a long range - for example freight trucks and intercity buses. But maybe if these are the only EVs that use scarce minerals, then there just might be enough minerals to go around.

	~~{{minor\|Every once and awhile there~~'~~s some news article about some company researching / developing / investing in some battery type that will supposedly be as energy-dense as~~ lithium-~~ion. But there~~'~~s no guarantee it'll happen in~~ the ~~near future, and if it does, it'll probably be expensive~~.}}		For mid-range EVs, [[LFP batteries]] might be good enough. They're still lithium-based, but at least they're cobalt-free - and these batteries are already available on the market today.

	~~<!-- TALK:~~
	* Maybe refactor this to either be a table or have 1 heading for each energy storage candidate. That way, other things like [[lead-acid]] batteries can be mentioned. Or don't; just have a full table on the [[energy storage]] page.
	* I want to make a bolder tl;dr:
	** Electric cars are fine if people are willing to settle for less range, and if the battery industry gets its shit together and starts making cheap sodium-ion batteries.
	~~-->~~
	===Generating enough electricity===		===Generating enough electricity===
	{{sum\|Major problem\|bad}}		{{sum\|Major problem\|bad}}

Elie at 00:51, 16 October 2023

2023-10-16T00:51:52Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-Most road vehicles currently run on gasoline or diesel fuel, which cause [[climate change]]. One ''possible solution'' is to make vehicles electric. This comes with new challenges that aren't solved yet.
+[[File:ghg-pie-chart.png|thumb]]
-==Generating enough electricity==
+'''''Possible'' solution:''' Make vehicles electric. But this comes with some serious challenges that must be dealt with first, before electric vehicles (EVs) can be mass-produced enough to actually make a difference for the planet.
-The vehicles would add an extra load on the power grid. ''How much'' electricity depends on whether the vehicles run on batteries or fuel cells. See [[/energy|this chart]].
+{{considerations}}
-The world ''already'' struggles to generate enough electricity without using [[fossil fuels]]. If ''coal'' or ''natural gas'' power plants are used for charging vehicles, there is [[/fossil fuel powered|almost no net benefit to the environment]].
+==Status quo==
-[[Solar]], [[wind]], and [[nuclear]] all show potential to produce enough [[energy]] - but '''''only''''' if the right innovations happen.
+==Types of EVs==
-==Manufacturing enough energy storage==
+By type of vehicle:
-There are a few ways to store energy in vehicles:
+==Considerations==
-* Batteries, such as [[lithium ion]]
+===Battery minerals===
-* [[Hydrogen gas]] connected to a [[fuel cell vehicles|fuel cell]]
+{{sum|Major problem|bad}}
-Both are currently ''not viable'' on a large scale, due to needing too many ''rare metals''. See each page for details.
+More specifically:
-Other battery tech may be promising - especially [[sodium-sulfur batteries]].{{rn}}<!-- TALK: need to decide on a standard for the wikipage title of each battery type -->
+* [[Hydrogen]] [[fuel cell vehicles]] are based in '''platinum'''-group metals (PGMs), which are also scarce.

Elie: Created page with "Most road vehicles currently run on gasoline or diesel fuel, which cause climate change. One ''possible solution'' is to make vehicles electric. This comes with new challenges that aren't solved yet. ==Generating enough electricity== The vehicles would add an extra load on the power grid. ''How much'' electricity depends on whether the vehicles run on batteries or fuel cells. See this chart. The world ''already'' struggles to generate enough electricit..."

2023-01-22T02:44:46Z

Created page with "Most road vehicles currently run on gasoline or diesel fuel, which cause climate change. One ''possible solution'' is to make vehicles electric. This comes with new challenges that aren't solved yet. ==Generating enough electricity== The vehicles would add an extra load on the power grid. ''How much'' electricity depends on whether the vehicles run on batteries or fuel cells. See this chart. The world ''already'' struggles to generate enough electricit..."

New page

Most road vehicles currently run on gasoline or diesel fuel, which cause [[climate change]]. One ''possible solution'' is to make vehicles electric. This comes with new challenges that aren't solved yet.

==Generating enough electricity==

The vehicles would add an extra load on the power grid. ''How much'' electricity depends on whether the vehicles run on batteries or fuel cells. See [[/energy|this chart]].

The world ''already'' struggles to generate enough electricity without using [[fossil fuels]]. If ''coal'' or ''natural gas'' power plants are used for charging vehicles, there is [[/fossil fuel powered|almost no net benefit to the environment]].

[[Solar]], [[wind]], and [[nuclear]] all show potential to produce enough [[energy]] - but '''''only''''' if the right innovations happen.

[[Hydro]] and [[geothermal]] are viable solutions in '''''some''''' parts of the world.

==Manufacturing enough energy storage==

There are a few ways to store energy in vehicles:
* Batteries, such as [[lithium ion]]
* [[Hydrogen gas]] connected to a [[fuel cell vehicles|fuel cell]]

Both are currently ''not viable'' on a large scale, due to needing too many ''rare metals''. See each page for details.

Other battery tech may be promising - especially [[sodium-sulfur batteries]].{{rn}}