Archive:000/How much energy storage would it take - Revision history

Elie: Elie moved page How much energy storage would it take to Archive:000/How much energy storage would it take without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor

2024-10-26T20:29:46Z

Elie moved page How much energy storage would it take to Archive:000/How much energy storage would it take without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:29, 26 October 2024
(No difference)

Elie at 00:10, 29 June 2024

2024-06-29T00:10:13Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:10, 28 June 2024
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	Simple estimate: 54 kWh		Simple estimate: 54 kWh
	~~{{p2\|[Show~~ calculation]\|{{calc		<tab name="See calculation" collapsed>
			Estimated from US vehicle ownership statistics
			{{calc
	\|<nowiki>ev.battery * usa.registered_vehicles / usa.population</nowiki>		\|<nowiki>ev.battery * usa.registered_vehicles / usa.population</nowiki>
	\|<nowiki>kWh</nowiki>		\|<nowiki>kWh</nowiki>
	}} }}		}}
			{{pn\|TODO: add commercial vehicles (semi trucks, at least)}}
			</tab>
			<!--
	===Hydrogen combustion===		===Hydrogen combustion===
	{{empty}}		{{empty}}
	~~<!--~~ TALK: the page [[How much electricity would it take]] assumes battery EVs. If referencing this in the calculation, then be sure to adjust the numbers accordingly. -->		{{pn\|TALK: the page [[How much electricity would it take]] assumes battery EVs. If referencing this in the calculation, then be sure to adjust the numbers accordingly.}}
			-->
			==Stationary storage==
			The need for energy storage depends on which mix of energy sources is used. Here are some scenarios.

	~~==Energy sources~~, ~~by scenario==~~		{{minor\|Note: Some of the "''short-term energy storage''" here may overlap with vehicle batteries, if people use their EVs as grid storage.}}
	{{dp		{{dp
	\|energy_demand		\|energy_demand

Elie: /* Quick estimate */

2024-06-22T04:18:13Z

Quick estimate

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:18, 22 June 2024
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	* 6773 kWh long-term storage - equivalent to 203 kg of [[hydrogen gas]] (but its container might be much heavier - several tons perhaps)		* 6773 kWh long-term storage - equivalent to 203 kg of [[hydrogen gas]] (but its container might be much heavier - several tons perhaps)
	<tab name="See calculations" style="margin-left:0.5em" collapsed>		<tab name="See calculations" style="margin-left:0.5em" collapsed>
			Solar tends to follow a day/night cycle, but sometimes there are cloudy days where the output is less. Therefore, assume that storing 24 hours of average energy demand is just about enough:
	{{calc		{{calc
	\|24 hours energy_demand		\|24 hours energy_demand
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	}}		}}

			In the winter, average solar output tends to be about half what it is in the summer.<!--TODO: add the cite--> Of course this depends on what part of the world we're dealing with, but for the sake of a quick estimate, we're just looking at a general case. So assume that storing 6 months worth of ''half'' the average energy demand would be enough:
	{{calc		{{calc
	\|6 months 50% energy_demand		\|6 months 50% energy_demand
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	\|kg hydrogen_gas.energy_by_mass		\|kg hydrogen_gas.energy_by_mass
	}}		}}

			The idea would be to produce hydrogen gas (or ammonia or some other fuel) in the summer using excess electricity, then burn it in the winter or whenever it is needed. This should be reasonable considering that <code>energy_demand</code> includes some things that don't necessarily ''have to'' be electric (i.e. heating; cooking; industrial uses of heat; hydrogen or ammonia combustion vehicles).
	</tab>		</tab>

	====Estimates from real data====		====Estimates from real data====
	{{empty}}		{{empty}}

Elie: Created page with "How much energy storage would be needed, '''per capita''', to sustain status-quo "developed country"-type material conditions without fossil fuels? ==Vehicles== ===Battery EVs=== {{dp |ev.battery |65.2 kWh |Energy capacity of the average electric vehicle battery |Useable battery capacity of full electric vehicles
https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/useable-battery..."

2024-06-22T04:00:25Z

Created page with "How much energy storage would be needed, '''per capita''', to sustain status-quo "developed country"-type material conditions without fossil fuels? ==Vehicles== ===Battery EVs=== {{dp |<nowiki>ev.battery</nowiki> |<nowiki>65.2 kWh</nowiki> |<nowiki>Energy capacity of the average electric vehicle battery</nowiki> |<nowiki>Useable battery capacity of full electric vehicles</nowiki> <nowiki> https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/useable-battery..."

New page

How much [[energy storage]] would be needed, '''per capita''', to sustain status-quo "developed country"-type material conditions [[decarbonize energy|without fossil fuels]]?

==Vehicles==
===Battery EVs===
{{dp
|<nowiki>ev.battery</nowiki>
|<nowiki>65.2 kWh</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Energy capacity of the average electric vehicle battery</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Useable battery capacity of full electric vehicles</nowiki> <nowiki>
https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/useable-battery-capacity-electric-car</nowiki> <nowiki>
</nowiki>
}}
{{dp
|<nowiki>usa.registered_vehicles</nowiki>
|<nowiki>275.9 million</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Number of registered vehicles in the USA</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Top Numbers Driving America's Gasoline Demand</nowiki> <nowiki>
https://www.api.org/news-policy-and-issues/blog/2022/05/26/top-numbers-driving-americas-gasoline-demand</nowiki>
}}
{{dp
|<nowiki>usa.population</nowiki>
|<nowiki>334416477</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Number of people living in the USA</nowiki>
|<nowiki>United States Population (Live) - Worldometer</nowiki> <nowiki>
www.worldometers.info › world-population › us-population</nowiki> <nowiki>
Last updated April 7 2022</nowiki>
}}

Simple estimate: 54 kWh
{{p2|[Show calculation]|{{calc
|<nowiki>ev.battery * usa.registered_vehicles / usa.population</nowiki>
|<nowiki>kWh</nowiki>
}} }}

===Hydrogen combustion===
{{empty}}


==Energy sources, by scenario==
{{dp
|energy_demand
|3090.5158 watts per capita
|Power needed per person (averaged over time; not peak power)
|From page: [[How much electricity would it take]]. Includes a lot more than just home electricity. Includes the energy used in all industries & transportation.
}}
{{dp
|<nowiki>li_ion.energy_by_mass</nowiki>
|<nowiki>163 watt hours per kilogram</nowiki>
|<nowiki>Specific energy of a lithium-ion battery</nowiki>
|<nowiki>https://www.cei.washington.edu/education/science-of-solar/battery-technology/</nowiki> <nowiki>
The article provides a range of values: 100 to 265 Wh/kg</nowiki> <nowiki>
We take the geometric average: 163 Wh/kg</nowiki> <nowiki>
</nowiki> <nowiki>
https://www.fluxpower.com/blog/what-is-the-energy-density-of-a-lithium-ion-battery</nowiki> <nowiki>
The article also provides a range: 50 to 260 Wh/kg</nowiki> <nowiki>
I assume that article is a bit older since the range is lower.</nowiki>
}}
{{dp
|<nowiki>hydrogen_gas.energy_by_mass</nowiki>
|<nowiki>120 MJ/kg</nowiki>
|<nowiki></nowiki>
|<nowiki>"By contrast, hydrogen has an energy density of approximately 120 MJ/kg , almost three times more than diesel or gasoline. In electrical terms, the energy density of hydrogen is equal to 33.6 kWh of usable energy per kg, versus diesel which only holds about 12–14 kWh per kg."</nowiki> <nowiki>
Oct 2, 2019</nowiki> <nowiki>
Run on Less with Hydrogen Fuel Cells - RMI</nowiki> <nowiki>
rmi.org › Blog </nowiki>
}}
===All solar===
====Quick estimate====
* 74 kWh short-term storage - equivalent to 455 kg of [[lithium-ion]] batteries
* 6773 kWh long-term storage - equivalent to 203 kg of [[hydrogen gas]] (but its container might be much heavier - several tons perhaps)
<tab name="See calculations" style="margin-left:0.5em" collapsed>
{{calc
|24 hours energy_demand
|kWh
|short_term
}}
{{calc
|short_term
|kg li_ion.energy_by_mass
}}

{{calc
|6 months 50% energy_demand
|kWh
|long_term
}}
{{calc
|long_term
|kg hydrogen_gas.energy_by_mass
}}
</tab>
====Estimates from real data====
{{empty}}

===Mix of wind and solar===
====Estimates from real data====
{{empty}}

===All nuclear===
{{minor|If nuclear plants are properly designed to adjust to the fluctuating electricity demand, then}}
No energy storage would be needed, except in electric vehicles.

==Other / more detailed analyses==
{{light|''If you'd like to do a similar analysis to the one on this page, you can add your link to it here.''}}

==See also==
* [[Decarbonize energy]]