Archive:000/Limits to sustainable animal consumption - Revision history

https://thechange.wiki/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=Archive%3A000%2FLimits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption Archive:000/Limits to sustainable animal consumption - Revision history 2026-08-02T08:40:16Z Revision history for this page on the wiki MediaWiki 1.41.0 https://thechange.wiki/index.php?title=Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&diff=2355&oldid=prev Elie: Elie moved page Limits to sustainable animal consumption to Archive:000/Limits to sustainable animal consumption without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor 2024-10-26T20:29:49Z

<p>Elie moved page <a href="/index.php?title=Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Limits to sustainable animal consumption (page does not exist)">Limits to sustainable animal consumption</a> to <a href="/Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption" title="Archive:000/Limits to sustainable animal consumption">Archive:000/Limits to sustainable animal consumption</a> without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor</p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="1" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="1" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:29, 26 October 2024</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-notice" lang="en"><div class="mw-diff-empty">(No difference)</div> </td></tr></table>

Elie https://thechange.wiki/index.php?title=Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&diff=792&oldid=prev Elie: /* FAQ */ 2023-03-15T20:55:10Z

<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">FAQ</span></span></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:55, 15 March 2023</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l133">Line 133:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 133:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>|What about chickens & pigs?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>|What about chickens & pigs?</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>|Since chickens & pigs are not ruminants, they depend on eating grains or other foods that ''people'' could eat - this ''includes'' the "table scraps" often mentioned by owners of chickens.{{x|To see how to really use vegetables to the fullest, see [[food/full_use#vegetables]].}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>|Since chickens & pigs are not ruminants, they depend on eating grains or other foods that ''people'' could eat - this ''includes'' the "table scraps" often mentioned by owners of chickens.{{x|To see how to really use vegetables to the fullest, see [[food/full_use#vegetables]].}}</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Backyard chickens]] can't solve the ''food-inefficiency'' problem, but they ''can'' at least reduce the ''animal cruelty'' problem. Backyard chickens are generally treated better{{x|with some exceptions, unfortunately}} than chickens in [[factory farms]]. Also, chickens are useful on crop lands because they can eat insects that would otherwise be pests.{{x|This can help with [[crop yields]]. Chickens also poop which can help [[fertilizer|fertilize]] the soil, but from a higher perspective, this doesn't add any minerals that weren't already there in the first place (the [[soil]] page will explain this in more detail).}} This could certainly contribute ''some'' chicken & eggs to the food supply, but it probably wouldn't be much compared to the status quo of chicken consumption.{{qn|and could be added to the total}} To be fair, when it comes to exceeding the "limits to sustainable animal consumption", chicken isn't as bad as beef{{x|for the same amount of meat}}. Cows have a much worse [[feed efficiency]], which is a problem when they are fed grains.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Backyard chickens]] can't solve the ''food-inefficiency'' problem, but they ''can'' at least reduce the ''animal cruelty'' problem. Backyard chickens are generally treated better{{x|with some exceptions, unfortunately}} than chickens in [[factory farms]]. Also, chickens are useful on crop lands because they can eat insects that would otherwise be pests.{{x|This can help with [[crop yields]]. Chickens also poop which can help [[fertilizer|fertilize]] the soil, but from a higher perspective, this doesn't add any minerals that weren't already there in the first place (the [[soil]] page will explain this in more detail).}} This could certainly contribute ''some'' chicken & eggs to the food supply, but it probably wouldn't be much compared to the status quo of chicken consumption.{{qn| and could be added to the total}} To be fair, when it comes to exceeding the "limits to sustainable animal consumption", chicken isn't as bad as beef{{x|for the same amount of meat}}. Cows have a much worse [[feed efficiency]], which is a problem when they are fed grains.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>}}</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> </table>

Elie https://thechange.wiki/index.php?title=Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&diff=791&oldid=prev Elie at 20:28, 15 March 2023 2023-03-15T20:28:17Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:28, 15 March 2023</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l131">Line 131:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 131:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==FAQ==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==FAQ==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{faq</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{faq</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">"</del>What about chickens & pigs?<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">"</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>|What about chickens & pigs?</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>|Since chickens & pigs are not ruminants, they depend on eating grains or other foods that ''people'' could eat - this ''includes'' the "table scraps" often mentioned by owners of chickens.{{x|To see how to really use vegetables to the fullest, see [[food/full_use#vegetables]].}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>|Since chickens & pigs are not ruminants, they depend on eating grains or other foods that ''people'' could eat - this ''includes'' the "table scraps" often mentioned by owners of chickens.{{x|To see how to really use vegetables to the fullest, see [[food/full_use#vegetables]].}}</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Backyard chickens]] can't solve the ''food-inefficiency'' problem, but they ''can'' at least reduce the ''animal cruelty'' problem. Backyard chickens are generally treated better{{x|with some exceptions, unfortunately}} than chickens in [[factory farms]]. Also, chickens are useful on crop lands because they can eat insects that would otherwise be pests.{{x|This can help with [[crop yields]]. Chickens also poop which can help [[fertilizer|fertilize]] the soil, but from a higher perspective, this doesn't add any minerals that weren't already there in the first place (the [[soil]] page will explain this in more detail).}} This could certainly contribute ''some'' chicken & eggs to the food supply, but it probably wouldn't be much compared to the status quo of chicken consumption.{{qn|and could be added to the total}} To be fair, when it comes to exceeding the "limits to sustainable animal consumption", chicken isn't as bad as beef{{x|for the same amount of meat}}. Cows have a much worse [[feed efficiency]], which is a problem when they are fed grains.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Backyard chickens]] can't solve the ''food-inefficiency'' problem, but they ''can'' at least reduce the ''animal cruelty'' problem. Backyard chickens are generally treated better{{x|with some exceptions, unfortunately}} than chickens in [[factory farms]]. Also, chickens are useful on crop lands because they can eat insects that would otherwise be pests.{{x|This can help with [[crop yields]]. Chickens also poop which can help [[fertilizer|fertilize]] the soil, but from a higher perspective, this doesn't add any minerals that weren't already there in the first place (the [[soil]] page will explain this in more detail).}} This could certainly contribute ''some'' chicken & eggs to the food supply, but it probably wouldn't be much compared to the status quo of chicken consumption.{{qn|and could be added to the total}} To be fair, when it comes to exceeding the "limits to sustainable animal consumption", chicken isn't as bad as beef{{x|for the same amount of meat}}. Cows have a much worse [[feed efficiency]], which is a problem when they are fed grains.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>}}</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Editor </del>comments==</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Writer's </ins>comments==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This page mostly deals with the ''inefficiency'' problems in agriculture. It doesn't account for ''other'' environmental issues such as methane emissions or soil depletion. Maybe this page should be a ''subpage'', and there could be other subpages <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">for other environmental analysis</del>. The main "Limits to sustainable animal consumption" page could provide just a summary (tl;dr) and links to the subpages.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This page mostly deals with the ''inefficiency'' problems in agriculture. It doesn't account for ''other'' environmental issues such as methane emissions or soil depletion<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, or other ethical issues like animal cruelty{{x|On one hand, at least grass-fed cows aren't forced to spend their whole lives in cages. On the other hand, male calves are almost always separated from their mothers at birth and slaughtered for veal, since they aren't very useful to the milk or beef industry (only a small number of bulls are ever needed). This is obviously distressing for the cows whose sons are taken away and killed. There needs to be a page on this. It could talk about whether there are any less-cruel alternatives (sex-selective abortion, perhaps? would the cost be reasonable though?).}}</ins>. Maybe this page should be a ''subpage'', and there could be other subpages <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">involving those issues</ins>. The main "Limits to sustainable animal consumption" page could provide just a summary (tl;dr) and links to <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">all </ins>the subpages.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==See also==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==See also==</div></td></tr> </table>

Elie https://thechange.wiki/index.php?title=Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&diff=787&oldid=prev Elie: /* FAQ */ 2023-03-14T22:54:15Z

<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">FAQ</span></span></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 18:54, 14 March 2023</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l130">Line 130:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 130:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==FAQ==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==FAQ==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Q:&emsp;</del>"What about chickens & pigs?"<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><br /></del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{faq</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">A:&emsp;</del>Since chickens & pigs are not ruminants, they depend on eating grains <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">and </del>other foods that <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">humans </del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">could have</del>'' <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">eaten instead </del>- this ''includes'' the "table scraps" often mentioned by <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">people who own </del>chickens.{{x|To see how to really use vegetables to the fullest, see [[food/full_use#vegetables]].}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">|</ins>"What about chickens & pigs?"</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Backyard chickens]] can't solve the ''food-inefficiency'' problem, but they ''can'' at least reduce the ''animal cruelty'' problem. Backyard chickens are generally treated better{{x|with some exceptions, unfortunately}} than chickens in [[factory farms]]. Also, chickens are useful on crop lands because they can eat insects that would otherwise be pests.{{x|This can help with [[crop yields]]. Chickens also poop which can help [[fertilizer|fertilize]] the soil, but from a higher perspective, this doesn't add any minerals that weren't already there in the first place (the [[soil]] page will explain this in more detail).}} This could certainly contribute ''some'' chicken & eggs to the food supply, but it probably wouldn't be much compared to the status quo of chicken consumption.{{qn}} To be fair, when it comes to exceeding the "limits to sustainable animal consumption", chicken isn't as bad as beef{{x|for the same amount of meat}}. Cows have a much worse [[feed efficiency]], which is a problem when they are fed grains.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">|</ins>Since chickens & pigs are not ruminants, they depend on eating grains <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">or </ins>other foods that ''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">people</ins>'' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">could eat </ins>- this ''includes'' the "table scraps" often mentioned by <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">owners of </ins>chickens.{{x|To see how to really use vegetables to the fullest, see [[food/full_use#vegetables]].}}</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Backyard chickens]] can't solve the ''food-inefficiency'' problem, but they ''can'' at least reduce the ''animal cruelty'' problem. Backyard chickens are generally treated better{{x|with some exceptions, unfortunately}} than chickens in [[factory farms]]. Also, chickens are useful on crop lands because they can eat insects that would otherwise be pests.{{x|This can help with [[crop yields]]. Chickens also poop which can help [[fertilizer|fertilize]] the soil, but from a higher perspective, this doesn't add any minerals that weren't already there in the first place (the [[soil]] page will explain this in more detail).}} This could certainly contribute ''some'' chicken & eggs to the food supply, but it probably wouldn't be much compared to the status quo of chicken consumption.{{qn<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">|and could be added to the total</ins>}} To be fair, when it comes to exceeding the "limits to sustainable animal consumption", chicken isn't as bad as beef{{x|for the same amount of meat}}. Cows have a much worse [[feed efficiency]], which is a problem when they are fed grains.</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">}}</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Editor comments==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Editor comments==</div></td></tr> </table>

Elie https://thechange.wiki/index.php?title=Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&diff=782&oldid=prev Elie at 22:07, 14 March 2023 2023-03-14T22:07:39Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 18:07, 14 March 2023</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l67">Line 67:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 67:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>|(grams/day per capita)(world.population)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>|(grams/day per capita)(world.population)</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>}}</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>^ Total amount of protein from both meat and dairy, combined. {{<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">x</del>|This is probably a slight overestimate, because <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del>feed efficiency ratios <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">are </del>lower when <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the </del>cows are fed less <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">human</del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">edible grains.</del>}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>^ Total amount of protein from both meat and dairy, combined. {{<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">p</ins>|This is probably a slight overestimate, because feed efficiency ratios <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">tend to be </ins>lower when cows are fed less <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">grain.<!</ins>-<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-TODO: add the citation--></ins>}}</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div></tab></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div></tab></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> </table>

Elie https://thechange.wiki/index.php?title=Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&diff=778&oldid=prev Elie: /* FAQ */ 2023-03-14T20:23:19Z

<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">FAQ</span></span></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:23, 14 March 2023</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l133">Line 133:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 133:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A:&emsp;Since chickens & pigs are not ruminants, they depend on eating grains and other foods that humans ''could have'' eaten instead - this ''includes'' the "table scraps" often mentioned by people who own chickens.{{x|To see how to really use vegetables to the fullest, see [[food/full_use#vegetables]].}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A:&emsp;Since chickens & pigs are not ruminants, they depend on eating grains and other foods that humans ''could have'' eaten instead - this ''includes'' the "table scraps" often mentioned by people who own chickens.{{x|To see how to really use vegetables to the fullest, see [[food/full_use#vegetables]].}}</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Backyard chickens]] can't solve the ''food-inefficiency'' problem, but they ''can'' at least reduce the ''animal cruelty'' problem. Backyard chickens are generally treated better{{x|with some exceptions, unfortunately}} than chickens in [[factory farms]]. Also, chickens are useful on crop lands because they can eat insects that would otherwise be pests.{{x|This can help with [[crop yields]]. Chickens also poop which can help [[fertilizer|fertilize]] the soil, but from a higher perspective, this doesn't add any minerals that weren't already there in the first place (the [[soil]] page will explain this in more detail).}} This could certainly contribute ''some'' chicken & eggs to the food supply, but it probably wouldn't be much compared to the status quo of chicken consumption.{{qn}} To be fair, when it comes to exceeding the "limits to sustainable animal consumption", chicken isn't as bad as beef{{x|for the same amount of meat}}. Cows have a much worse [[feed efficiency]], which is a problem when they are fed grains.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Backyard chickens]] can't solve the ''food-inefficiency'' problem, but they ''can'' at least reduce the ''animal cruelty'' problem. Backyard chickens are generally treated better{{x|with some exceptions, unfortunately}} than chickens in [[factory farms]]. Also, chickens are useful on crop lands because they can eat insects that would otherwise be pests.{{x|This can help with [[crop yields]]. Chickens also poop which can help [[fertilizer|fertilize]] the soil, but from a higher perspective, this doesn't add any minerals that weren't already there in the first place (the [[soil]] page will explain this in more detail).}} This could certainly contribute ''some'' chicken & eggs to the food supply, but it probably wouldn't be much compared to the status quo of chicken consumption.{{qn}} To be fair, when it comes to exceeding the "limits to sustainable animal consumption", chicken isn't as bad as beef{{x|for the same amount of meat}}. Cows have a much worse [[feed efficiency]], which is a problem when they are fed grains.</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">==Editor comments==</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">This page mostly deals with the ''inefficiency'' problems in agriculture. It doesn't account for ''other'' environmental issues such as methane emissions or soil depletion. Maybe this page should be a ''subpage'', and there could be other subpages for other environmental analysis. The main "Limits to sustainable animal consumption" page could provide just a summary (tl;dr) and links to the subpages.</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==See also==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==See also==</div></td></tr> </table>

Elie https://thechange.wiki/index.php?title=Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&diff=777&oldid=prev Elie: /* See also */ 2023-03-14T11:04:47Z

<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">See also</span></span></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 07:04, 14 March 2023</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l137">Line 137:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 137:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Food]] - main topic</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Food]] - main topic</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Food/faq]] - to answer questions such as "if we ate less meat, what would happen to existing farm animals?"</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Food/faq]] - to answer questions such as "if we ate less meat, what would happen to existing farm animals?"</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* [[Plant-based]] food, which can provide the rest of dietary protein & calories.</ins></div></td></tr> </table>

Elie https://thechange.wiki/index.php?title=Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&diff=775&oldid=prev Elie: /* FAQ */ 2023-03-14T10:11:44Z

<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">FAQ</span></span></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 06:11, 14 March 2023</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l132">Line 132:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 132:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Q:&emsp;"What about chickens & pigs?"<br /></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Q:&emsp;"What about chickens & pigs?"<br /></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A:&emsp;Since chickens & pigs are not ruminants, they depend on eating grains and other foods that humans ''could have'' eaten instead - this ''includes'' the "table scraps" often mentioned by people who own chickens.{{x|To see how to really use vegetables to the fullest, see [[food/full_use#vegetables]].}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A:&emsp;Since chickens & pigs are not ruminants, they depend on eating grains and other foods that humans ''could have'' eaten instead - this ''includes'' the "table scraps" often mentioned by people who own chickens.{{x|To see how to really use vegetables to the fullest, see [[food/full_use#vegetables]].}}</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Backyard chickens]] can't solve the ''food-inefficiency'' problem, but they ''can'' at least reduce the ''animal cruelty'' problem. Backyard chickens are generally treated better{{x|with some exceptions, unfortunately}} than chickens in [[factory farms]]. Also, chickens are useful on crop lands because they can eat insects that would otherwise be pests.{{x|This can help with [[crop yields]]. Chickens also poop which can help [[fertilizer|fertilize]] the soil, but from a higher perspective, this doesn't add any minerals that weren't already there in the first place (the [[soil]] page will explain this in more detail).}} This could certainly contribute ''some'' chicken & eggs to the food supply, but it probably wouldn't be much compared to the status quo of chicken consumption.{{qn}} To be fair, when it comes to exceeding the "limits to sustainable animal consumption", chicken isn't as bad as beef. Cows have a much worse [[feed efficiency]], which is a problem when they are fed grains.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Backyard chickens]] can't solve the ''food-inefficiency'' problem, but they ''can'' at least reduce the ''animal cruelty'' problem. Backyard chickens are generally treated better{{x|with some exceptions, unfortunately}} than chickens in [[factory farms]]. Also, chickens are useful on crop lands because they can eat insects that would otherwise be pests.{{x|This can help with [[crop yields]]. Chickens also poop which can help [[fertilizer|fertilize]] the soil, but from a higher perspective, this doesn't add any minerals that weren't already there in the first place (the [[soil]] page will explain this in more detail).}} This could certainly contribute ''some'' chicken & eggs to the food supply, but it probably wouldn't be much compared to the status quo of chicken consumption.{{qn}} To be fair, when it comes to exceeding the "limits to sustainable animal consumption", chicken isn't as bad as beef<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{x|for the same amount of meat}}</ins>. Cows have a much worse [[feed efficiency]], which is a problem when they are fed grains.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==See also==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==See also==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Food]] - main topic</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Food]] - main topic</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Food/faq]] - to answer questions such as "if we ate less meat, what would happen to existing farm animals?"</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Food/faq]] - to answer questions such as "if we ate less meat, what would happen to existing farm animals?"</div></td></tr> </table>

Elie https://thechange.wiki/index.php?title=Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&diff=774&oldid=prev Elie: /* Hunting */ 2023-03-14T10:09:42Z

<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Hunting</span></span></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 06:09, 14 March 2023</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l86">Line 86:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 86:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Hunting==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Hunting==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Hunter-gatherer lifestyles were sustainable in prehistoric times when the world population was less than 0.1 billion - today we are at 8.0 billion. Hunting might be a great survival tactic if you're lost in the woods. But it's not going to feed the world. There would be mass extinctions of wild animals [[overhunting|if we tried]].</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Hunter-gatherer lifestyles were sustainable in prehistoric times when the world population was less than 0.1 billion - today we are at 8.0 billion. Hunting might be a great survival tactic if you're lost in the woods. But it's not going to feed the world. There would be mass extinctions of wild animals [[overhunting|if we tried]].</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Fishing==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Fishing==</div></td></tr> </table>

Elie https://thechange.wiki/index.php?title=Archive:000/Limits_to_sustainable_animal_consumption&diff=773&oldid=prev Elie: /* Status quo */ 2023-03-14T10:08:41Z

<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Status quo</span></span></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 06:08, 14 March 2023</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l74">Line 74:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 74:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Status quo===</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Status quo===</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Ruminants (cows, buffalo, goats and sheep) produce a total of about 16 <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">grams </del>of protein <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">per day </del>per capita globally.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Ruminants (cows, buffalo, goats and sheep) produce a total of about 16 <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">g/day </ins>of protein per capita globally.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* 10 g <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">protein</del>/day from milk{{x|from 297 mL/day of milk}} per capita</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* 10 g/day <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">protein </ins>from milk{{x|from 297 mL/day of milk}} per capita</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* 6 g <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">protein</del>/day from meat{{x|from 30 g/day of meat}} per capita</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* 6 g/day <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">protein </ins>from meat{{x|from 30 g/day of meat}} per capita</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* This was calculated in [[Code:food2.sql]].</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* This was calculated in [[Code:food2.sql]].</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Some of this food goes to waste unfortunately, but there might be ways to [[food waste#mitigation|mitigate that problem]].</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Grass</del>-fed animal production can't really increase without [[habitat loss|destroying forests and other wildlife]], because most of the world's [[land|farmland]] is ''already'' pasture, and that's not even counting rangelands which are also already grazed upon.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Not all of this is grass-fed. Also, grass</ins>-fed animal production can't really increase without [[habitat loss|destroying forests and other wildlife]], because most of the world's [[land|farmland]] is ''already'' pasture, and that's not even counting rangelands which are also already grazed upon.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Total animal protein production (all animals) is about 35 g/day per capita globally. Consumption is less, because [[food waste|some of it goes to waste]].{{qn}}</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Hunting==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Hunting==</div></td></tr> </table>

Elie