Archive:000/Lithium-ion batteries - Revision history

Elie: Elie moved page Lithium-ion batteries to Archive:000/Lithium-ion batteries without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor

2024-10-26T20:29:50Z

Elie moved page Lithium-ion batteries to Archive:000/Lithium-ion batteries without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:29, 26 October 2024
(No difference)

Elie: /* Cobalt and other minerals */

2023-11-09T06:05:44Z

Cobalt and other minerals

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:05, 9 November 2023
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	}}		}}

	<tab name="(average-case estimate)" style="background:#0000FF22">		<tab name="(average-case estimate)" style="background:#0000FF22;margin:0 1em">
	According to a meta-analysis: "In 2020, an average lithium-ion battery contained around '''28.9''' kilograms of nickel, '''7.7''' kilogram of cobalt, and '''5.9''' kilogram of lithium. [...] Based on the average battery composition in 2020 with 60 kWh capacity."		According to a meta-analysis: "In 2020, an average lithium-ion battery contained around '''28.9''' kilograms of nickel, '''7.7''' kilogram of cobalt, and '''5.9''' kilogram of lithium. [...] Based on the average battery composition in 2020 with 60 kWh capacity."
	<ref>Oct 9, 2023, [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1247675/weight-of-metal-in-lithium-ion-batteries/ Weight of metal in lithium-ion batteries 2020 - Statista]</ref> Also note that 60 kWh is considered pretty "average" for the battery capacity of an [[electric car]]. <ref>https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/useable-battery-capacity-electric-car</ref>		<ref>Oct 9, 2023, [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1247675/weight-of-metal-in-lithium-ion-batteries/ Weight of metal in lithium-ion batteries 2020 - Statista]</ref> Also note that 60 kWh is considered pretty "average" for the battery capacity of an [[electric car]]. <ref>https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/useable-battery-capacity-electric-car</ref>

Elie: /* Cobalt and other minerals */ blue tint on calc

2023-11-09T06:04:22Z

Cobalt and other minerals: blue tint on calc

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:04, 9 November 2023
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	}}		}}

	<tab name="(average-case estimate)">		<tab name="(average-case estimate)" style="background:#0000FF22">
	According to a meta-analysis: "In 2020, an average lithium-ion battery contained around '''28.9''' kilograms of nickel, '''7.7''' kilogram of cobalt, and '''5.9''' kilogram of lithium. [...] Based on the average battery composition in 2020 with 60 kWh capacity."		According to a meta-analysis: "In 2020, an average lithium-ion battery contained around '''28.9''' kilograms of nickel, '''7.7''' kilogram of cobalt, and '''5.9''' kilogram of lithium. [...] Based on the average battery composition in 2020 with 60 kWh capacity."
	<ref>Oct 9, 2023, [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1247675/weight-of-metal-in-lithium-ion-batteries/ Weight of metal in lithium-ion batteries 2020 - Statista]</ref> Also note that 60 kWh is considered pretty "average" for the battery capacity of an [[electric car]]. <ref>https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/useable-battery-capacity-electric-car</ref>		<ref>Oct 9, 2023, [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1247675/weight-of-metal-in-lithium-ion-batteries/ Weight of metal in lithium-ion batteries 2020 - Statista]</ref> Also note that 60 kWh is considered pretty "average" for the battery capacity of an [[electric car]]. <ref>https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/useable-battery-capacity-electric-car</ref>
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	As great as lithium-ion is for small electronic devices, it's simply not scalable enough for large-scale [[energy storage]], because of the minerals. If we want all vehicles to be electric, we'll need some other battery type such as [[sodium-ion]].		As great as lithium-ion is for small electronic devices, it's simply not scalable enough for large-scale [[energy storage]], because of the minerals. If we want all vehicles to be electric, we'll need some other battery type such as [[sodium-ion]].


	==Energy in manufacturing==		==Energy in manufacturing==

Elie at 05:56, 9 November 2023

2023-11-09T05:56:54Z

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 {{considerations}}
-==Cobalt==
+==Cobalt and other minerals==
 {{sum|Major problem|bad}}
-Suppose all vehicles ran on lithium-ion batteries:
+If all the world's vehicles were lithium-ion electric, how many minerals would be needed:
 {{dp
 |ev.battery
@@ Line 49: / Line 49: @@
 |<nowiki>https://batteryguy.com/kb/knowledge-base/how-to-calculate-the-lithium-content-in-a-battery/</nowiki><br /><nowiki>
 The article says lithium per amp hour. We convert this to lithium per watt hour (energy), by including the cell voltage.</nowiki>
 }}
 {{dp
@@ Line 69: / Line 62: @@
 |<nowiki>https://www.statista.com/statistics/264930/global-cobalt-reserves/</nowiki>
 }}
 {{calc
-|li_ion.cobalt_by_energy * world.cars * ev.battery * commercial_factor
+|7.7 kg * world.cars * commercial_factor
 |% cobalt.reserves
 }}
 {{calc
-|li_ion.lithium_by_energy * world.cars * ev.battery * commercial_factor
+|5.9 kg * world.cars * commercial_factor
 |% lithium.reserves
 }}
-At least it's ''viable'' - although there would still probably be a big environmental footprint.{{qn}} We'd have to make sure that '''all''' EV batteries eventually get recycled.
+</tab>
-<!-- TODO: add more calculations: labor footprint, energy footprint, and how long it would take to produce that much lithium at current production rates
-     TALK: maybe also mention other pollution caused by lithium mining - but it might be more qualitative and should probably be placed in the main [[lithium]] page first. Same for [[cobalt]] btw. -->
+'''Cobalt is the biggest issue''', as we'd need to somehow mine '''3 times''' more cobalt than Earth's mineral reserves. Such a scenario would motivate companies to strip-mine the ocean floor in desperate attempt to obtain enough cobalt - which would be disastrous for wildlife. Also note that cobalt is notorious for being mined by child labor. {{npn}}
 ==Energy in manufacturing==
 {{sum|Not ''too'' bad}}
@@ Line 162: / Line 169: @@
 <small>Similar calculations could be done for non-vehicle energy storage.</small><!-- TODO: add them -->
 ==Recyclability==
@@ Line 174: / Line 182: @@
 ==See also==
 * [[Sodium-ion batteries]] - possibly a more scalable [[energy storage]] solution, but it isn't on the market yet.<!-- NOTE: update this if anything changes! -->

Elie: /* Cobalt */

2023-11-05T05:37:34Z

Cobalt

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:37, 5 November 2023
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	}}		}}
	So, besides needing '''far more''' cobalt than we could ever mine from the earth{{x\|well, technically maybe we'd find more cobalt reserves, but don't count on it}}, there would also be major environmental damage and [[cobalt#child labor\|child labor]] if we tried.		So, besides needing '''far more''' cobalt than we could ever mine from the earth{{x\|well, technically maybe we'd find more cobalt reserves, but don't count on it}}, there would also be major environmental damage and [[cobalt#child labor\|child labor]] if we tried.

			There are some efforts to reduce the amount of cobalt in the batteries, but this has its limits, as cobalt is needed for stability (i.e. preventing the batteries from bursting into flames too easily). {{en}}
	<!--		<!--
	TODO: make multiple tabs for more calculations: cobalt resources (instead of reserves), and cobalt resources if we strip-mined the ocean floor (not recommended; write that)		TODO: make multiple tabs for more calculations: cobalt resources (instead of reserves), and cobalt resources if we strip-mined the ocean floor (not recommended; write that)

Elie at 01:05, 18 October 2023

2023-10-18T01:05:31Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 Lithium-ion batteries are some of the most commonly used batteries today. But are they a good solution to the [[energy storage]] problem? Short answer: no.
-====Concerns====
+==Cobalt==
-{|class="wikitable"
+{{sum|Major problem|bad}}
 Suppose all vehicles ran on lithium-ion batteries:
 {{dp
@@ Line 79: / Line 75: @@
 So, besides needing '''far more''' cobalt than we could ever mine from the earth{{x|well, technically maybe we'd find more cobalt reserves, but don't count on it}}, there would also be major environmental damage and [[cobalt#child labor|child labor]] if we tried.
 <!--
-  TODO: add more calculations: labor footprint, energy footprint
+  TODO: make multiple tabs for more calculations: cobalt resources (instead of reserves), and cobalt resources if we strip-mined the ocean floor (not recommended; write that)
-  TALK: should we compare to cobalt ''resources'' rather than ''reserves'', to see if it's viable? If it is - still, how do we quantify the environmental footprint of mining that much cobalt?
+  TALK: is commercial_factor even accurate? is [world.cars] already covering all passenger-owned road vehicles (inc. bigger ones) and [ev.battery] already is an average affected by large vehicles too? (tho maybe not as large as some of the gas cars on the market) And so then the only road vehicles [world.cars] doesn't include are buses and freight trucks? well even so, maybe [commercial_factor=2] is still reasonable bc of the huge disproportionate amount of batteries would be needed for an electric semi truck, since its range has to be much longer than most electric cars? anyway idk what to do with this musing, or how/whether to work it in somewhere in [commercial_factor]'s description?
 -->
-<small>This problem could maybe be overcome by solving [[lithium-ion/challenge 1]].</small>
+==Lithium==
+{{sum|Possible problem}}
 Consider a similar calculation for lithium:
 {{calc
@@ Line 96: / Line 94: @@
 Note: this still doesn't include the additional [[energy storage]] we'd need on the power grid if [[solar]] and [[wind]] were major [[energy]] sources. This is less than what's needed for vehicles,<!-- TODO: link to the page that has those calculations--> but in total we'd probably slightly exceed global lithium reserves.
 ==Energy in manufacturing==
 Averaged over the lifespan of the vehicle:
 {{dp
@@ Line 158: / Line 161: @@
 <small>Similar calculations could be done for non-vehicle energy storage.</small><!-- TODO: add them -->
 ==See also==
-* [[Sodium-ion batteries]] - a possible solution
+* [[Sodium-ion batteries]] - possibly a more scalable [[energy storage]] solution, but it isn't on the market yet.<!-- NOTE: update this if anything changes! -->

Elie: /* Need for lithium */

2023-03-25T03:57:47Z

Need for lithium

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:57, 24 March 2023
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	Note: this still doesn't include the additional [[energy storage]] we'd need on the power grid if [[solar]] and [[wind]] were major [[energy]] sources. This is less than what's needed for vehicles,<!-- TODO: link to the page that has those calculations--> but in total we'd probably slightly exceed global lithium reserves.		Note: this still doesn't include the additional [[energy storage]] we'd need on the power grid if [[solar]] and [[wind]] were major [[energy]] sources. This is less than what's needed for vehicles,<!-- TODO: link to the page that has those calculations--> but in total we'd probably slightly exceed global lithium reserves.
			<!-- TODO:
	<!-- TODO: ==Need for nickel== -->		Add section: ==Need for nickel== -->

	==Energy in manufacturing==		==Energy in manufacturing==

Elie: /* Need for lithium */

2023-03-25T03:56:57Z

Need for lithium

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:56, 24 March 2023
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	Note: this still doesn't include the additional [[energy storage]] we'd need on the power grid if [[solar]] and [[wind]] were major [[energy]] sources. This is less than what's needed for vehicles,<!-- TODO: link to the page that has those calculations--> but in total we'd probably slightly exceed global lithium reserves.		Note: this still doesn't include the additional [[energy storage]] we'd need on the power grid if [[solar]] and [[wind]] were major [[energy]] sources. This is less than what's needed for vehicles,<!-- TODO: link to the page that has those calculations--> but in total we'd probably slightly exceed global lithium reserves.

			<!-- TODO: ==Need for nickel== -->

	==Energy in manufacturing==		==Energy in manufacturing==

Elie: /* Energy in manufacturing */

2023-03-24T22:31:05Z

Energy in manufacturing

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:31, 24 March 2023
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	From this perspective, it seems that the energy in ''manufacturing'' the battery is reasonable enough.		From this perspective, it seems that the energy in ''manufacturing'' the battery is reasonable enough.

	Note: This doesn't include the energy involved in ''mining for'' the minerals to make the battery ~~- which we already saw was an issue anyway (see above)~~. {{x\|In general, the rarer the mineral, the more energy it takes to mine.}}		Note: This doesn't include the energy involved in ''mining for'' the minerals to make the battery. {{x\|In general, the rarer the mineral, the more energy it takes to mine.}} But we already saw earlier that mining (cobalt) was a problem regardless.

	''Similar calculations could be done for non-vehicle energy storage.''<!-- TODO: add them -->		<small>Similar calculations could be done for non-vehicle energy storage.</small><!-- TODO: add them -->

	==See also==		==See also==
	* [[Sodium-ion batteries]] - a possible solution		* [[Sodium-ion batteries]] - a possible solution

Elie at 22:27, 24 March 2023

2023-03-24T22:27:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:27, 24 March 2023
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	TALK: should we compare to cobalt ''resources'' rather than ''reserves'', to see if it's viable? If it is - still, how do we quantify the environmental footprint of mining that much cobalt?		TALK: should we compare to cobalt ''resources'' rather than ''reserves'', to see if it's viable? If it is - still, how do we quantify the environmental footprint of mining that much cobalt?
	-->		-->

	<small>This problem could maybe be overcome by solving [[lithium-ion/challenge 1]].</small>		<small>This problem could maybe be overcome by solving [[lithium-ion/challenge 1]].</small>

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	From this perspective, it seems that the energy in ''manufacturing'' the battery is reasonable enough.		From this perspective, it seems that the energy in ''manufacturing'' the battery is reasonable enough.

	Note: This doesn't include the energy involved in ''~~extracting~~'' the minerals to make the battery - which we already saw was an issue anyway (see above).		Note: This doesn't include the energy involved in ''mining for'' the minerals to make the battery - which we already saw was an issue anyway (see above). {{x\|In general, the rarer the mineral, the more energy it takes to mine.}}

	Similar calculations could be done for non-vehicle energy storage.<!-- TODO: add them -->		''Similar calculations could be done for non-vehicle energy storage.''<!-- TODO: add them -->

	==See also==		==See also==
	* [[Sodium-ion batteries]] - a possible solution		* [[Sodium-ion batteries]] - a possible solution