Archive:000/Rooftop solar/gas stations - Revision history

Elie: Elie moved page Rooftop solar/gas stations to Archive:000/Rooftop solar/gas stations without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor

2024-10-26T20:30:09Z

Elie moved page Rooftop solar/gas stations to Archive:000/Rooftop solar/gas stations without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:30, 26 October 2024
(No difference)

Elie at 09:56, 27 February 2023

2023-02-27T09:56:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:56, 27 February 2023
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	==Viability==		==Viability==
			In peak sunlight, how long might it take to charge one vehicle from 0% to 100%:
	{{dp		{{dp
	\|<nowiki>ev.battery</nowiki>		\|<nowiki>ev.battery</nowiki>
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	from wikipedia; haven't found original source yet</nowiki>		from wikipedia; haven't found original source yet</nowiki>
	}}		}}
	~~In peak sunlight, how long would it take to provide a full charge:~~
	{{calc		{{calc
	\|ev.battery / (sunlight_peak solar_panel.efficiency gas_station_roof.area)		\|ev.battery / (sunlight_peak solar_panel.efficiency gas_station_roof.area)
	\|minutes		\|minutes
	}}		}}
	<small>Caveats:</small> {{p\|- Would take longer if multiple vehicles are plugged in.<br />- Would take less time if the gas station canopy is bigger.<br />- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should <code>li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency</code> be factored in or not?<br />- The more [[solar/challenge 1\|~~viable~~ solar panels]] might be less efficient, which would also slow the charging. But the panels would be cheaper, so it might still make economic sense.<br />- Is a 0%-to-100% charge even a common customer use-case? Maybe solar gas station rooftops could be mostly just for top-ups, which would be fine if they were commonplace.<br />- Battery/charger capabilities might still limit charge speed in some cases.}}		<small>Caveats:</small> {{p\|- Would take longer if multiple vehicles are plugged in.<br />- Would take less time if the gas station canopy is bigger.<br />- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should <code>li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency</code> be factored in or not?<br />- The more [[solar/challenge 1\|scaleable solar panels]] might be less efficient, which would also slow the charging. But the panels would be cheaper, so it might still make economic sense.<br />- Is a 0%-to-100% charge even a common customer use-case? Maybe solar gas station rooftops could be mostly just for top-ups, which would be fine if they were commonplace.<br />- Battery/charger capabilities might still limit charge speed in some cases.}}

	<!-- TODO: energy storage: daytime-only stations could still benefit from having ''some'', but not as much as 24-hour stations. -->		<!-- TODO: energy storage: daytime-only stations could still benefit from having ''some'', but not as much as 24-hour stations. -->
	<!-- TODO: economic viability -->		<!-- TODO: economic viability -->
	~~Would there~~ be enough ~~gas stations~~:		If all vehicles were electric, and all gas stations were repurposed with solar panels to the roof, would that alone be enough to charge all the vehicles? Short answer: No. Not even close:
	{{dp		{{dp
	\|<nowiki>usa.gas_stations</nowiki>		\|<nowiki>usa.gas_stations</nowiki>
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	{{calc		{{calc
	\|usa.gas_stations / usa.registered_vehicles		\|usa.gas_stations / usa.registered_vehicles
	\|~~seconds~~ per ~~day~~ per vehicle		\|minutes per week per vehicle
	}}		}}
	~~Short~~ answer~~: No~~.		<small>Note: {{x\|The USA is used in this calculation, but the answer probably wouldn't be ''much'' different in other countries.}} {{x\|The calculation illustrates how little time each vehicle would get for charging. Nowhere near enough, when you consider the earlier calculation.}}</small>

	We'd have to build a lot of new [[solar charging stations]] (which might still ''look like'' gas station roofs). Existing suburban houses could ''also'' provide enough [[rooftop solar]] for all the vehicles, but people's cars aren't generally parked at home during the day. Then again, that's not a major problem. Suburban homes could dump their excess energy into the power grid which could charge vehicles elsewhere in the city.		We'd have to build a lot of new [[solar charging stations]] (which might still ''look like'' gas station roofs). Existing suburban houses could ''also'' provide enough [[rooftop solar]] for all the vehicles, but people's cars aren't generally parked at home during the day. Then again, that's not a major problem. Suburban homes could dump their excess energy into the power grid which could charge vehicles elsewhere in the city during the day.

	==Design challanges==		==Design challanges==

Elie: /* Viability */

2023-01-14T15:35:06Z

Viability

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:35, 14 January 2023
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	\|minutes		\|minutes
	}}		}}
	<small>Caveats:</small> {{p\|- Would take longer if multiple vehicles are plugged in.<br />- Would take less time if the gas station canopy is bigger.<br />- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should <code>li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency</code> be factored in or not?<br />- The more [[solar/challenge 1\|viable solar panels]] might be less efficient, which would also slow the charging. But the panels would be cheaper, so it might still make economic sense.<br />- Is a 0%-to-100% charge even a common customer use-case? Maybe solar gas station rooftops could be mostly just for top-ups, which would be fine if they were commonplace.}}		<small>Caveats:</small> {{p\|- Would take longer if multiple vehicles are plugged in.<br />- Would take less time if the gas station canopy is bigger.<br />- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should <code>li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency</code> be factored in or not?<br />- The more [[solar/challenge 1\|viable solar panels]] might be less efficient, which would also slow the charging. But the panels would be cheaper, so it might still make economic sense.<br />- Is a 0%-to-100% charge even a common customer use-case? Maybe solar gas station rooftops could be mostly just for top-ups, which would be fine if they were commonplace.<br />- Battery/charger capabilities might still limit charge speed in some cases.}}

	<!-- TODO: energy storage: daytime-only stations could still benefit from having ''some'', but not as much as 24-hour stations. -->		<!-- TODO: energy storage: daytime-only stations could still benefit from having ''some'', but not as much as 24-hour stations. -->

Elie: /* Viability */

2023-01-14T15:30:46Z

Viability

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:30, 14 January 2023
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	\|minutes		\|minutes
	}}		}}
	<small>Caveats:</small> {{p\|- Would take longer if multiple vehicles are plugged in.<br />- Would take less time if the gas station canopy is bigger.<br />- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should <code>li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency</code> be factored in or not?<br />- The more [[solar/~~challange~~ 1\|viable solar panels]] might be less efficient, which would also slow the charging. But the panels would be cheaper, so it might still make economic sense.<br />- Is a 0%-to-100% charge even a common customer use-case? Maybe solar gas station rooftops could be mostly just for top-ups, which would be fine if they were commonplace.}}		<small>Caveats:</small> {{p\|- Would take longer if multiple vehicles are plugged in.<br />- Would take less time if the gas station canopy is bigger.<br />- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should <code>li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency</code> be factored in or not?<br />- The more [[solar/challenge 1\|viable solar panels]] might be less efficient, which would also slow the charging. But the panels would be cheaper, so it might still make economic sense.<br />- Is a 0%-to-100% charge even a common customer use-case? Maybe solar gas station rooftops could be mostly just for top-ups, which would be fine if they were commonplace.}}

	<!-- TODO: energy storage: daytime-only stations could still benefit from having ''some'', but not as much as 24-hour stations. -->		<!-- TODO: energy storage: daytime-only stations could still benefit from having ''some'', but not as much as 24-hour stations. -->

Elie at 11:58, 14 January 2023

2023-01-14T11:58:31Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:58, 14 January 2023
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			[[File:GasStationRooftopSolar1.jpg\|thumb]]
	A gas station roof is potentially a good place to put [[solar]] panels.		A gas station roof is potentially a good place to put [[solar]] panels.
	~~[[File:GasStationRooftopSolar1.jpg\|125px\|frame]]~~

	==Viability==		==Viability==
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	\|<nowiki>Top Numbers Driving America's Gasoline Demand</nowiki><br /><nowiki>		\|<nowiki>Top Numbers Driving America's Gasoline Demand</nowiki><br /><nowiki>
	https://www.api.org/news-policy-and-issues/blog/2022/05/26/top-numbers-driving-americas-gasoline-demand</nowiki>		https://www.api.org/news-policy-and-issues/blog/2022/05/26/top-numbers-driving-americas-gasoline-demand</nowiki>
			}}
			{{dp
			\|vehicle
			\|1
			\|\|placeholder
	}}		}}
	{{calc		{{calc
	\|usa.gas_stations / usa.registered_vehicles		\|usa.gas_stations / usa.registered_vehicles
	\|seconds per day		\|seconds per day per vehicle
	}}		}}
	Short answer: No.		Short answer: No.

Elie at 11:49, 14 January 2023

2023-01-14T11:49:51Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 A gas station roof is potentially a good place to put [[solar]] panels.
-[[File:GasStationRooftopSolar1.png|frame]]
+[[File:GasStationRooftopSolar1.jpg|125px|frame]]
 ==Viability==
 In peak sunlight, how long would it take to provide a full charge:
 {{calc
@@ Line 8: / Line 46: @@
 |minutes
 }}
-<small>Caveats:</small> {{p|- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should <code>li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency</code> be factored in?<br />- The more [[solar/challange 1|viable solar panels]] might be less efficient, which would also slow the charging. But the panels would be cheaper, so it might still make economic sense.<br />- Is a 0%-to-100% charge even a common customer use-case? Maybe solar gas station rooftops could be mostly just for top-ups, which would be fine if they were commonplace.}}
+<small>Caveats:</small> {{p|- Would take longer if multiple vehicles are plugged in.<br />- Would take less time if the gas station canopy is bigger.<br />- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should <code>li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency</code> be factored in or not?<br />- The more [[solar/challange 1|viable solar panels]] might be less efficient, which would also slow the charging. But the panels would be cheaper, so it might still make economic sense.<br />- Is a 0%-to-100% charge even a common customer use-case? Maybe solar gas station rooftops could be mostly just for top-ups, which would be fine if they were commonplace.}}
 <!-- TODO: energy storage: daytime-only stations could still benefit from having ''some'', but not as much as 24-hour stations. -->
 <!-- TODO: economic viability -->
 ==Design challanges==
-* Gasoline pumps are high traffic areas, so you wouldn't want a car to charge right in front of them. You could probably make room for a charging station 10 to 20 meters away. Some extra wires would be necessary. They could either go above ground (beware of interfering with tall trucks) or below ground (probably a lot of initial cost).
+* Gasoline pumps are high traffic areas, so you wouldn't want a car to charge right in front of them. You could probably make room for a charging station 10 to 20 meters away. Some extra wires would be necessary. They could either go above ground (beware of interfering with tall trucks) or below ground (probably a high initial cost).
 * Gas station roofs also contain anti-fire systems designed to put out a gasoline fire in the rare case it happens. The solar wiring has to not interfere with that. This makes the engineering a bit more complex, but still manageable.

Elie: Created page with "A gas station roof is potentially a good place to put solar panels. frame ==Viability== In peak sunlight, how long would it take to provide a full charge: {{calc |ev.battery / (sunlight_peak solar_panel.efficiency gas_station_roof.area) |minutes }} Caveats: {{p|- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should `li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency` be factored in?
- The more solar/challang..."

2023-01-14T10:59:47Z

Created page with "A gas station roof is potentially a good place to put solar panels. frame ==Viability== In peak sunlight, how long would it take to provide a full charge: {{calc |ev.battery / (sunlight_peak solar_panel.efficiency gas_station_roof.area) |minutes }} Caveats: {{p|- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should <code>li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency</code> be factored in? - The more solar/challang..."

New page

A gas station roof is potentially a good place to put [[solar]] panels.
[[File:GasStationRooftopSolar1.png|frame]]

==Viability==
In peak sunlight, how long would it take to provide a full charge:
{{calc
|ev.battery / (sunlight_peak solar_panel.efficiency gas_station_roof.area)
|minutes
}}
Caveats: {{p|- Might take longer due to some minor energy losses. Should <code>li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency</code> be factored in? - The more [[solar/challange 1|viable solar panels]] might be less efficient, which would also slow the charging. But the panels would be cheaper, so it might still make economic sense. - Is a 0%-to-100% charge even a common customer use-case? Maybe solar gas station rooftops could be mostly just for top-ups, which would be fine if they were commonplace.}}




==Design challanges==
* Gasoline pumps are high traffic areas, so you wouldn't want a car to charge right in front of them. You could probably make room for a charging station 10 to 20 meters away. Some extra wires would be necessary. They could either go above ground (beware of interfering with tall trucks) or below ground (probably a lot of initial cost).
* Gas station roofs also contain anti-fire systems designed to put out a gasoline fire in the rare case it happens. The solar wiring has to not interfere with that. This makes the engineering a bit more complex, but still manageable.

==Marketing challanges==
Daytime-only charging might be a tough sell now, but ''less so'' if it [[rooftop solar|becomes a social norm]]. One way or another, the customer would have to pay a premium for nighttime charging (due to costs of [[energy storage]]) unless the grid has abundant amounts of other [[baseload]] power sources.

==External links==
Examples:
* https://lumossolar.com/solar-gas-station-canopy/