Archive:000/Wind power - Revision history

Elie: Elie moved page Wind power to Archive:000/Wind power without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor

2024-10-26T20:30:16Z

Elie moved page Wind power to Archive:000/Wind power without leaving a redirect: Huge_refactor

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:30, 26 October 2024
(No difference)

Elie at 06:41, 4 July 2024

2024-07-04T06:41:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:41, 4 July 2024
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	{{sum\|{{rn}} }}		{{sum\|{{rn}} }}
	{{empty}}		{{empty}}

			==External links==
			* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LklUVkMPl8g The Problem with Wind Energy - YouTube - RealEngineering]

	==References==		==References==

Elie at 04:58, 22 November 2023

2023-11-22T04:58:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:58, 22 November 2023
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	Wind turbines convert wind to electricity.		Wind turbines convert wind to electricity.

	{{minor\|A lot of people incorrectly call wind turbines "windmills". But in fact windmills are a much older technology, which use the wind to mill grains ''mechanically'' (no electricity involved).}}		{{minor\|Side note: A lot of people incorrectly call wind turbines "windmills". But in fact windmills are a much older technology, which use the wind to mill grains ''mechanically'' (no electricity involved).}}

	~~==Considerations==~~		{{considerations}}__NOTOC__ <!-- The above table replaces ''most'' of the table of contents. -->
	~~{\|class="wikitable"~~
	~~\|[[#Intermittency]]~~		==Intermittency==
	~~\|Needs [[energy storage]]~~		{{sum\|Needs [[energy storage]]}}
	\|-
	~~\|[[#Geography]]~~
	~~\|Major limitation~~
	\|-
	~~\|[[#Rare earth magnets]]~~
	\|{{rn}}
	\|-
	~~\|[[#Cement]]~~
	~~\|{{gcell}}Not a significant problem~~
	\|-
	~~\|[[#EROI]]~~
	~~\|{{gcell}}Manageable~~
	\|-
	~~\|[[#Land use]]~~
	~~\|{{gcell}}Manageable~~
	\|-
	~~\|[[#Noise]]~~
	~~\|{{rn}}~~
	\|-
	~~\|[[#Recyclability]]~~
	~~\|{{rn}}~~
	\|}
	__NOTOC__ <!-- The above table replaces ''most'' of the table of contents. -->
	===Intermittency===

	Wind power is even more intermittent than [[solar]]. There can be months where the wind blows strongly, and months where it barely blows at all. Also, wind turbines can't function when the wind blows ''too'' hard.		Wind power is even more intermittent than [[solar]]. There can be months where the wind blows strongly, and months where it barely blows at all. Also, wind turbines can't function when the wind blows ''too'' hard.
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	Wind energy is probably best stored via [[hydrogen gas]], which doesn't have a ''fixed capacity'' the way batteries do. {{x\|A battery can only store a fixed amount of energy at any given time. But hydrogen could be produced and stockpiled if necessary (as long as [[hydrogen gas/safety\|safety]] concerns are addressed). Hydrogen production units (electrolyzers) still have a fixed ''power'' rating: There's a limit to how much hydrogen can be produced ''per unit of time''.}}		Wind energy is probably best stored via [[hydrogen gas]], which doesn't have a ''fixed capacity'' the way batteries do. {{x\|A battery can only store a fixed amount of energy at any given time. But hydrogen could be produced and stockpiled if necessary (as long as [[hydrogen gas/safety\|safety]] concerns are addressed). Hydrogen production units (electrolyzers) still have a fixed ''power'' rating: There's a limit to how much hydrogen can be produced ''per unit of time''.}}

	===Geography===		==Geography==
			{{sum\|Limitation}}

	The best places for wind turbines [[/Geography\|aren't usually near where people live]]. In most cases, the distance is far enough that power lines wouldn't even be viable. {{qn}}		The best places for wind turbines [[/Geography\|aren't usually near where people live]]. In most cases, the distance is far enough that power lines wouldn't even be viable. {{qn}}
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	We'd need to estimate the full [[EROI]] of such a system, to make sure it's [[Term:viable\|viable]].{{rn}}		We'd need to estimate the full [[EROI]] of such a system, to make sure it's [[Term:viable\|viable]].{{rn}}

	===Rare earth magnets===		==Rare earth magnets==
	To build a wind turbine{{x\|specifically, the ''dynamo'' component which converts spinning motion into electricity}}requires either ''strong magnets'' (made with rare earth metals{{qn}}) or a complex gearbox (which requires maintenance{{qn\| - labor}}and isn't suited for offshore wind).		{{sum\|Probably reasonable{{rn}} }}

			To build a wind turbine{{x\|specifically, the ''dynamo'' component which converts spinning motion into electricity}}requires either:
			* ''strong magnets'', made with rare earth metals{{qn}}
			* or a complex gearbox, which requires maintenance{{qn\| - labor}}and isn't suited for offshore wind.

	{{pn\|This section needs more research to determine which rare metals are needed, in what quantities, and whether there would be enough global [[mineral reserves]] to scale up wind power enough to replace fossil fuels or not.}}		{{pn\|This section needs more research to determine which rare metals are needed, in what quantities, and whether there would be enough global [[mineral reserves]] to scale up wind power enough to replace fossil fuels or not.}}
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	-->		-->

	===Cement===		==Cement==
			{{sum\|Reasonable}}

	The footing of a wind turbine requires a lot of concrete - a potential concern because cement production releases CO<sub>2</sub>. However, it turns out that the amount of CO<sub>2</sub> is '''not''' very significant:		The footing of a wind turbine requires a lot of concrete - a potential concern because cement production releases CO<sub>2</sub>. However, it turns out that the amount of CO<sub>2</sub> is '''not''' very significant:

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	}}		}}
	{{calc		{{calc
	\|<nowiki>wind.rq_concrete * concrete.cement_by_mass * cement.ghg_by_mass ~~/ wind.capacity_factor~~</nowiki>		\|<nowiki>wind.rq_concrete / wind.capacity_factor * concrete.cement_by_mass * cement.ghg_by_mass</nowiki>
	\|<nowiki>days gasoline.ghg_by_energy</nowiki>		\|<nowiki>days gasoline.ghg_by_energy</nowiki>
	}}		}}
	</tab>		</tab>

	~~Compared to burning gasoline~~{{x\|for the ~~same amount~~ of energy ~~per unit of time}}, a~~ wind turbine's cement ~~footprint "~~pays itself off~~" in just under 20 days~~.		A wind turbine's cement CO<sub>2</sub> footprint "pays itself off" in about 20 days, when you compare the wind power with the fossil fuels it would typically replace. {{x\|Note that this equation compares [[Term:primary\|primary]]-energy from wind (intermittent electricity) with [[Term:primary\|primary]]-energy from gasoline (which is a sort of "average" fossil fuel in terms of carbon-per-energy; coal has a bit more carbon while natural gas has a bit less, but they're [[:File:fossil-fuels-ghg-by-energy.png\|close enough]] for the purpose of this estimate). Additional energy losses in coal or natural gas power plants would mean that the wind turbine cement CO<sub>2</sub> pays itself off even sooner. }}

	<small>This is pretty reasonable considering that a wind turbine's lifespan is about 20 ''years''.<ref>United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) - [https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPURL.cgi?Dockey=P100IL8K.TXT Renewable Energy Fact Sheet: Wind Turbines - epa nepis]</ref></small>		<small>This is pretty reasonable considering that a wind turbine's lifespan is about 20 ''years''.<ref>United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) - [https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPURL.cgi?Dockey=P100IL8K.TXT Renewable Energy Fact Sheet: Wind Turbines - epa nepis]</ref></small>

	==~~=EROI=~~==		==E.R.O.I.==
	[[Energy return on investment]]: About 19.		{{sum\|Reasonable}}
			[[Energy return on investment]] (EROI): About 19.

	In other words: wind turbines, over their entire lifespan, produce about 19 times as much energy as it takes to make them.<ref>Hall, C., et al. (2013) EROI of different fuels and the implications for society. Energy Policy (64), 141-152.</ref> There would still need to be some [[fossil fuels]] invested into wind power to "get the ball rolling".		In other words: wind turbines, over their entire lifespan, produce about 19 times as much energy as it takes to make them.<ref>Hall, C., et al. (2013) EROI of different fuels and the implications for society. Energy Policy (64), 141-152.</ref> There would still need to be some [[fossil fuels]] invested into wind power to "get the ball rolling".
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	Maybe there are some other wind turbine designs that have a better EROI. {{rn}}		Maybe there are some other wind turbine designs that have a better EROI. {{rn}}

	===Land use===		==Land use==
			{{sum\|Reasonable}}
	Per unit of energy, wind needs far more [[land]] than solar{{x\|in terms of the spacing between the wind turbines; not in terms of the footing size of the turbines}}. However, wind turbines can coexist with farm land{{x\|whether crop land or pasture}}, without interfering with [[crop yields]]. Crop land alone might provide enough space for enough wind turbines to meet global energy demands:		Per unit of energy, wind needs far more [[land]] than solar{{x\|in terms of the spacing between the wind turbines; not in terms of the footing size of the turbines}}. However, wind turbines can coexist with farm land{{x\|whether crop land or pasture}}, without interfering with [[crop yields]]. Crop land alone might provide enough space for enough wind turbines to meet global energy demands:
	{{dp		{{dp
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	There should be '''no need''' to destroy natural habitats to build wind farms.		There should be '''no need''' to destroy natural habitats to build wind farms.

	===~~Noise~~===		==Noise==
			{{sum\|{{rn}} }}
			{{empty}}

			==Bird deaths==
			{{sum\|{{rn}} }}
	{{empty}}		{{empty}}

	===Recyclability===		==Recyclability==
			{{sum\|{{rn}} }}
	{{empty}}		{{empty}}

Elie at 20:19, 3 November 2023

2023-11-03T20:19:03Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:19, 3 November 2023
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	Scaling up [[energy storage]] is already a challenge, even for solar which only needs about a day's worth of energy storage in general. Wind might need several weeks worth{{x\|i.e. could easily need 40 times more battery capacity for the same ''average'' energy consumption rate}}.		Scaling up [[energy storage]] is already a challenge, even for solar which only needs about a day's worth of energy storage in general. Wind might need several weeks worth{{x\|i.e. could easily need 40 times more battery capacity for the same ''average'' energy consumption rate}}.

	~~Maybe wind~~ energy ~~could be~~ stored via [[hydrogen]], which doesn't have a ''fixed capacity'' the way batteries do. {{x\|A battery can only store a fixed amount of energy at any given time. But hydrogen could be produced and stockpiled if necessary (as long as [[hydrogen gas/safety\|safety]] concerns are addressed). Hydrogen production units (electrolyzers) still have a fixed ''power'' rating: There's a limit to how much hydrogen can be produced ''per unit of time''.}} ~~[[wind/hydrogen\|This has its own challenges.]]~~		Wind energy is probably best stored via [[hydrogen gas]], which doesn't have a ''fixed capacity'' the way batteries do. {{x\|A battery can only store a fixed amount of energy at any given time. But hydrogen could be produced and stockpiled if necessary (as long as [[hydrogen gas/safety\|safety]] concerns are addressed). Hydrogen production units (electrolyzers) still have a fixed ''power'' rating: There's a limit to how much hydrogen can be produced ''per unit of time''.}}

	===Geography===		===Geography===

Elie: /* Geography */

2023-11-03T20:16:41Z

Geography

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:16, 3 November 2023
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	The best places for wind turbines [[/Geography\|aren't usually near where people live]]. In most cases, the distance is far enough that power lines wouldn't even be viable. {{qn}}		The best places for wind turbines [[/Geography\|aren't usually near where people live]]. In most cases, the distance is far enough that power lines wouldn't even be viable. {{qn}}

	This might not be an issue if ~~[[wind/~~hydrogen]] (as described above) is the main solution. Instead of power lines, the wind turbines would generate [[hydrogen gas]] which would be [[hydrogen ~~transport~~\|transported]] and used for [[energy]] elsewhere.		This might not be an issue if hydrogen (as described above) is the main solution for the [[energy storage]]. Instead of power lines, the wind turbines would generate [[hydrogen gas]] which would be [[transportation of hydrogen gas\|transported]] and used for [[energy]] elsewhere.

	We'd need to estimate the full [[EROI]] of such a system, to make sure it's [[Term:viable\|viable]].{{rn}}		We'd need to estimate the full [[EROI]] of such a system, to make sure it's [[Term:viable\|viable]].{{rn}}

Elie: Elie moved page Wind to Wind power over redirect

2023-11-03T20:08:33Z

Elie moved page Wind to Wind power over redirect

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:08, 3 November 2023
(No difference)

Elie: /* Geography */

2023-10-17T18:31:12Z

Geography

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:31, 17 October 2023
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	===Geography===		===Geography===

	The best places for wind turbines [[~~wind~~/~~geography~~\|aren't usually near where people live]]. In most cases, the distance is far enough that power lines wouldn't even be viable. {{qn}}		The best places for wind turbines [[/Geography\|aren't usually near where people live]]. In most cases, the distance is far enough that power lines wouldn't even be viable. {{qn}}

	This might not be an issue if [[wind/hydrogen]] (as described above) is the main solution. Instead of power lines, the wind turbines would generate [[hydrogen gas]] which would be [[hydrogen transport\|transported]] and used for [[energy]] elsewhere.		This might not be an issue if [[wind/hydrogen]] (as described above) is the main solution. Instead of power lines, the wind turbines would generate [[hydrogen gas]] which would be [[hydrogen transport\|transported]] and used for [[energy]] elsewhere.

Elie at 22:00, 2 September 2023

2023-09-02T22:00:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:00, 2 September 2023
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	[[File:Wind Turbines to the south of Stowford Cross - geograph.org.uk - 410831.jpg\|thumb\|~~Wind~~ turbines]]		[[File:Wind Turbines to the south of Stowford Cross - geograph.org.uk - 410831.jpg\|thumb\|Onshore wind (wind turbines on land)]]
			[[File:Offshore wind farms photographed at the Port of Noshiro, at sunset 20220728.jpg\|thumb\|Offshore wind (stronger and somewhat less intermittent, on average)]]
	[[Category:Energy sources]]		[[Category:Energy sources]]

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	===Intermittency===		===Intermittency===

	Wind power is even more intermittent than [[solar]]. There can be ~~weeks~~ where the wind blows strongly~~{{x\|although if it blows ''too'' strongly, power also can't be generated - more on this later}}~~, and ~~weeks~~ where it barely blows at all. Also, wind turbines can't function when the wind blows ''too'' hard.		Wind power is even more intermittent than [[solar]]. There can be months where the wind blows strongly, and months where it barely blows at all. Also, wind turbines can't function when the wind blows ''too'' hard.
	{{p2\|(suitable wind speeds)\|		{{p2\|[suitable wind speeds]\|
	Most wind turbines can only generate power when wind speeds are between '''3.5 m/s''' and '''25 m/s'''.		Most wind turbines can only generate power when wind speeds are between '''3.5 m/s''' and '''25 m/s'''.
	<ref>DASH, Meteorologically Defined Limits to Reduction in the Variability of Outputs from a Coupled Wind Farm System in the Central US [Online], Available: http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/10981611/Meteorologically%20defined%20limits%20to%20reduction%20in%20the%20variability%20of%20outputs%20from%20a%20coupled%20wind%20farm%20system%20in%20the%20Central%20US_1.pdf?sequence=6</ref>		<ref>DASH, Meteorologically Defined Limits to Reduction in the Variability of Outputs from a Coupled Wind Farm System in the Central US [Online], Available: http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/10981611/Meteorologically%20defined%20limits%20to%20reduction%20in%20the%20variability%20of%20outputs%20from%20a%20coupled%20wind%20farm%20system%20in%20the%20Central%20US_1.pdf?sequence=6</ref>
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	When the wind speed is ''too high'', the wind turbine has to switch itself off completely{{x\|maybe with the right innovations, it could just dissipate ''excess'' power instead of shutting off completely? {{rn}} }} to prevent damage to the electronics and gearbox. Without this feature, some wind turbines have even been known to catch fire.		When the wind speed is ''too high'', the wind turbine has to switch itself off completely{{x\|maybe with the right innovations, it could just dissipate ''excess'' power instead of shutting off completely? {{rn}} }} to prevent damage to the electronics and gearbox. Without this feature, some wind turbines have even been known to catch fire.
	}}		}}

			This intermittency usually gets "filled in" with [[natural gas]] power plants, but that's not good enough if we want to phase out [[fossil fuels]].

	{{minor\|Having multiple wind farms might ''somewhat'' reduce the intermittency. But in practice, this doesn't seem to help much.<ref>David JC McKay, Sustainable energy - without the hot air [Online], Available: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c26/page_187.shtml</ref>}}		{{minor\|Having multiple wind farms might ''somewhat'' reduce the intermittency. But in practice, this doesn't seem to help much.<ref>David JC McKay, Sustainable energy - without the hot air [Online], Available: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c26/page_187.shtml</ref>}}

	Scaling up [[energy storage]] is already a challenge, even for solar which only needs about a day's worth of energy storage in general. Wind might need several weeks worth.		Scaling up [[energy storage]] is already a challenge, even for solar which only needs about a day's worth of energy storage in general. Wind might need several weeks worth{{x\|i.e. could easily need 40 times more battery capacity for the same ''average'' energy consumption rate}}.

	Maybe wind energy could be stored via [[hydrogen]], which doesn't have a ''fixed capacity'' the way batteries do. {{x\|A battery can only store a fixed amount of energy at any given time. But hydrogen could be produced and stockpiled if necessary (as long as [[hydrogen gas/safety\|safety]] concerns are addressed). Hydrogen production units (electrolyzers) still have a fixed ''power'' rating: There's a limit to how much hydrogen can be produced ''per unit of time''.}} [[wind/hydrogen\|This has its own challenges.]]		Maybe wind energy could be stored via [[hydrogen]], which doesn't have a ''fixed capacity'' the way batteries do. {{x\|A battery can only store a fixed amount of energy at any given time. But hydrogen could be produced and stockpiled if necessary (as long as [[hydrogen gas/safety\|safety]] concerns are addressed). Hydrogen production units (electrolyzers) still have a fixed ''power'' rating: There's a limit to how much hydrogen can be produced ''per unit of time''.}} [[wind/hydrogen\|This has its own challenges.]]
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	The best places for wind turbines [[wind/geography\|aren't usually near where people live]]. In most cases, the distance is far enough that power lines wouldn't even be viable. {{qn}}		The best places for wind turbines [[wind/geography\|aren't usually near where people live]]. In most cases, the distance is far enough that power lines wouldn't even be viable. {{qn}}

	This might not be an issue if [[wind/hydrogen]] (as described above) is the main solution. Instead of power lines, the wind turbines would generate [[hydrogen gas]] which would be [[hydrogen ~~gas/shipping~~\|transported]] and used for [[energy]] elsewhere.		This might not be an issue if [[wind/hydrogen]] (as described above) is the main solution. Instead of power lines, the wind turbines would generate [[hydrogen gas]] which would be [[hydrogen transport\|transported]] and used for [[energy]] elsewhere.

	We'd need to estimate the full [[EROI]] of such a system, to make sure it's [[Term:viable\|viable]].{{rn}}		We'd need to estimate the full [[EROI]] of such a system, to make sure it's [[Term:viable\|viable]].{{rn}}
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	{{pn\|This section needs more research to determine which rare metals are needed, in what quantities, and whether there would be enough global [[mineral reserves]] to scale up wind power enough to replace fossil fuels or not.}}		{{pn\|This section needs more research to determine which rare metals are needed, in what quantities, and whether there would be enough global [[mineral reserves]] to scale up wind power enough to replace fossil fuels or not.}}
			<!-- TALK:
			Consider citing the following study:

			Increase in demand for critical materials under IEA Net-Zero Emission by 2050 scenario - Yanan Liang †* , René Kleijn † , Ester van der Voet † - † Institute of Environmental Sciences (CML), Leiden University, 2333 CC, Leiden, the Netherlands - Corresponding author: y.liang@cml.leidenuniv.nl

			and cross-reference it with USGS data on rare-earth mineral reserves. Seems that even a "net zero by 2050" scenario would use only a very small fraction of mineral reserves - and that most of that is actually for electric car motors, not wind turbines.
			-->

	===Cement===		===Cement===
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	\|<nowiki>https://ourworldindata.org/land-use</nowiki>		\|<nowiki>https://ourworldindata.org/land-use</nowiki>
	}}		}}
			<tab name="(see maths)">
	{{calc		{{calc
	\|energy.tfc / wind.capacity_factor * wind.rq_land		\|energy.tfc / wind.capacity_factor * wind.rq_land
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	\|{{p2\|[discussion needed]\|~ <code>wind.rq_land</code> is based in the status quo of wind projects, which are probably on land that's more windy than average. If wind turbines were to be on ''average'' crop land, the energy productivity may be less. Then again, there's also pasture and barren land where wind turbines could be placed too, and there's also offshore wind.{{pbr}}~ If all countries were developed, we'd need more than just <code>energy.tfc</code> - but then again, we don't need to get all our energy from wind; [[rooftop solar]] also has a lot of productive potential.}}		\|{{p2\|[discussion needed]\|~ <code>wind.rq_land</code> is based in the status quo of wind projects, which are probably on land that's more windy than average. If wind turbines were to be on ''average'' crop land, the energy productivity may be less. Then again, there's also pasture and barren land where wind turbines could be placed too, and there's also offshore wind.{{pbr}}~ If all countries were developed, we'd need more than just <code>energy.tfc</code> - but then again, we don't need to get all our energy from wind; [[rooftop solar]] also has a lot of productive potential.}}
	}}		}}
			</tab>
	There should be '''no need''' to destroy natural habitats to build wind farms.		There should be '''no need''' to destroy natural habitats to build wind farms.

Elie: /* Land use */

2023-09-02T21:17:45Z

Land use

@@ Line 130: / Line 130: @@
 ===Land use===
-Per unit of energy, wind needs far more [[land]] than solar{{x|in terms of the spacing between the wind turbines; not in terms of the footing size of the turbines}}. However, wind turbines can coexist with farm land{{x|whether crop land or pasture}}, without interfering with [[crop yields]]. Crop land alone could provide enough space for wind turbines to meet global energy demands.{{qn| on a separate page}}
+Per unit of energy, wind needs far more [[land]] than solar{{x|in terms of the spacing between the wind turbines; not in terms of the footing size of the turbines}}. However, wind turbines can coexist with farm land{{x|whether crop land or pasture}}, without interfering with [[crop yields]]. Crop land alone might provide enough space for enough wind turbines to meet global energy demands:
 There should be '''no need''' to destroy natural habitats to build wind farms.

Elie at 20:40, 2 September 2023

2023-09-02T20:40:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:40, 2 September 2023
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	\|-		\|-
	\|[[#Geography]]		\|[[#Geography]]
	\|~~{{rcell}}~~Major limitation		\|Major limitation
	\|-		\|-
	\|[[#Rare earth magnets]]		\|[[#Rare earth magnets]]
	\|~~Possible problem~~ {{rn}}		\|{{rn}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|[[#Cement]]		\|[[#Cement]]
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	\|}		\|}
	__NOTOC__ <!-- The above table replaces ''most'' of the table of contents. -->		__NOTOC__ <!-- The above table replaces ''most'' of the table of contents. -->

	===Intermittency===		===Intermittency===

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	To build a wind turbine{{x\|specifically, the ''dynamo'' component which converts spinning motion into electricity}}requires either ''strong magnets'' (made with rare earth metals{{qn}}) or a complex gearbox (which requires maintenance{{qn\| - labor}}and isn't suited for offshore wind).		To build a wind turbine{{x\|specifically, the ''dynamo'' component which converts spinning motion into electricity}}requires either ''strong magnets'' (made with rare earth metals{{qn}}) or a complex gearbox (which requires maintenance{{qn\| - labor}}and isn't suited for offshore wind).

	This ~~page~~ needs more research to determine which rare metals are needed, in what quantities, and whether there would be enough global [[mineral reserves]] to scale up wind power enough to replace fossil fuels or not.		{{pn\|This section needs more research to determine which rare metals are needed, in what quantities, and whether there would be enough global [[mineral reserves]] to scale up wind power enough to replace fossil fuels or not.}}

	===Cement===		===Cement===

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:16, 3 November 2023
Line 58:		Line 58:
	The best places for wind turbines [[/Geography\|aren't usually near where people live]]. In most cases, the distance is far enough that power lines wouldn't even be viable. {{qn}}		The best places for wind turbines [[/Geography\|aren't usually near where people live]]. In most cases, the distance is far enough that power lines wouldn't even be viable. {{qn}}

	This might not be an issue if ~~[[wind/~~hydrogen]] (as described above) is the main solution. Instead of power lines, the wind turbines would generate [[hydrogen gas]] which would be [[hydrogen ~~transport~~\|transported]] and used for [[energy]] elsewhere.		This might not be an issue if hydrogen (as described above) is the main solution for the [[energy storage]]. Instead of power lines, the wind turbines would generate [[hydrogen gas]] which would be [[transportation of hydrogen gas\|transported]] and used for [[energy]] elsewhere.

	We'd need to estimate the full [[EROI]] of such a system, to make sure it's [[Term:viable\|viable]].{{rn}}		We'd need to estimate the full [[EROI]] of such a system, to make sure it's [[Term:viable\|viable]].{{rn}}