2,956
edits
Plant-based food: Difference between revisions
no edit summary
No edit summary |
No edit summary |
||
| Line 18: | Line 18: | ||
==FAQ - Nutrition== | ==FAQ - Nutrition== | ||
===="Can I really get all my nutrients without animal products?"==== | ===="Can I really get all my nutrients without animal products?"==== | ||
Yes - [[Nutrition/Examples/Cheap plant-based|see example]]. | Yes - [[Nutrition/Examples/Cheap plant-based|see example]]. | ||
| Line 28: | Line 27: | ||
===="What about minerals? Doesn't phytic acid get in the way of absorption?"==== | ===="What about minerals? Doesn't phytic acid get in the way of absorption?"==== | ||
{{empty}} {{talk|Start with: Not enough to be a problem... Also mention: Vitamin C and iron; RDAs set conservatively enough to account for phytates; ULs also conservative enough that somewhat exceeding them is safe in the context of phytates{{x|in other words, RDAs account for worst-case low absorption; ULs account for worst-case high absorption; studies are based on "healthy for 95% of the population" and you would know if you're in the other 5% (TALK: verify. Research: what conditions would the 5% typically include?)}} }} | {{empty}} {{talk|Start with: Not enough to be a problem... Also mention: Vitamin C and iron; RDAs set conservatively enough to account for phytates; ULs also conservative enough that somewhat exceeding them is safe in the context of phytates{{x|in other words, RDAs account for worst-case low absorption; ULs account for worst-case high absorption; studies are based on "healthy for 95% of the population" and you would know if you're in the other 5% (TALK: verify. Research: what conditions would the 5% typically include?)}} }} | ||
===="What about B12?"==== | |||
{{empty}} | |||
--> | --> | ||
| Line 65: | Line 67: | ||
==FAQ - Animals== | ==FAQ - Animals== | ||
===="If everyone goes vegan, what would happen to the animals? What should farmers do with the animals?"==== | ===="If everyone goes vegan, what would happen to the animals? What should farmers do with the animals?"==== | ||
* Option 1: Keep them until they die of old age. {{x|Not very profitable, of course, but the right laws/incentives could overcome this.}} | * Option 1: Keep them until they die of old age. {{x|Not very profitable, of course, but the right laws/incentives could overcome this.}} | ||
| Line 82: | Line 83: | ||
3. Open up the discussion about sentience being a continuum: Is the death of 1 mouse morally equal to the death of 1 cow? I would say no (even though but both lives matter to some degree). Different creatures have different capacity for conscious experience (it probably loosely correlates with brain size but i'm sure there are other factors as well). | 3. Open up the discussion about sentience being a continuum: Is the death of 1 mouse morally equal to the death of 1 cow? I would say no (even though but both lives matter to some degree). Different creatures have different capacity for conscious experience (it probably loosely correlates with brain size but i'm sure there are other factors as well). | ||
4. Even if it turns out that grass-fed beef involves fewer deaths per unit of protein (if we disregard the sentience continnum), don't forget that cows would not be able to produce enough protein to feed 8 billion people even if all land was grazed. So since we need some crops to feed the world, better to use fewer crops (via plant-based diets). | 4. Even if it turns out that grass-fed beef involves fewer deaths per unit of protein (if we disregard the sentience continnum), don't forget that cows would not be able to produce enough protein to feed 8 billion people even if all land was grazed. So since we need some crops to feed the world, better to use fewer crops (via plant-based diets). | ||
===="But what about lions, tigers, wolves and other carnivores, do you think they shouldn't eat meat?"==== | |||
{{empty}} | |||
--> | --> | ||
<!-- DRAFT: | <!-- DRAFT: | ||
==FAQ - Other== | ==FAQ - Other== | ||
==="Is it hypocritical when vegans are ok with abortion?"=== | ===="Is it hypocritical when vegans are ok with abortion?"==== | ||
{{empty}} {{talk|TODO: talk about 24 week mark, and status quo of abortion doctor policies}} | {{empty}} {{talk|TODO: talk about 24 week mark, and status quo of abortion doctor policies}} | ||
===="But what about indiginous peoples, do you think they shouldn't eat meat?"==== | |||
Indiginous people are less than 5% of the world's population. If they were the only ones eating meat, we wouldn't be in this environmental mess we're in. They Earth can sustain a few hundred million hunter-gatherers, but not 8 billion hunter-gatherers (animals would go extinct left right and center). To feed 8 billion people sustainably, we need plant agriculture. (this point comes up elsewhere as well, so maybe make this its own page?) | |||
{{talk|TODO: also add one about "first world privilege"}} | {{talk|TODO: also add one about "first world privilege"}} | ||
{{talk|TODO: add faq "but i heard that plants have feelings too" - points to cover: 1. Regarding those studies showing that plants can "send signals in response to damage" - this is analogous to animal wound healing, not consciousness. 2. Nobody in their right mind would equate mowing the lawn with hurting a puppy, for example.}} | |||
{{talk|TODO: add faq about honey. Some points to mention: 1. "but bees are needed for pollenation" - Pollinator bees produce as much honey as they need for themselves. When beekeepers harvest this honey, they have to replace it with some other sugar source (typically corn syrup based). If that's good enough for bees, it's good enough for humans (btw link to nutrition page about why empty calories can still be part of a healthy diet). 2. The aformented problem may be overcome by breeding bees specifically for honey production. But this makes them worse pollenators. You can't optimize for two things. Most honey comes from farms that don't provide pollenation services. Most pollenation service providers don't sell honey on any significant scale. 3. "but honey is antimicrobial" - so is any concentrated sugar source. Bacteria & molds don't grow because the ''water activity'' is too low. Slight acidity of honey helps too, which is easily recreatable with plant-based sweeteners. Btw compare the nutrition of honey, cane sugar, etc; in any case, the nutrients aren't very significant (but that's fine, as empty calories in moderation can still be part of a healthy diet). 4. In any case, if you want to eat honey, no one's stopping you. It's not a major part of status quo environmental degredation, compared to animal factory farming. (Although per calorie it's still not so great, and would be a lot worse if we tried to scale up the honey industry to match the sugar industry; would be worse than the sugar industry because it takes more land to grow crops to make the same amount of honey compared to sugar)}} | |||
{{talk|TODO: add faq about "no ethical consumption under capitalism": teach the difference between boycotting companies (nearly futile) vs boycotting products (effective and necessary). show why. {{talk|btw, what about boycotting countries? could be relevant to some other pages such as the BDS movement}}. also talk about ethically questionable plant products for comparison (palm oil, cocoa, maybe even sugar)}} | |||
{{talk|TODO: add faq about "but humans are omnivores?"}} | |||
--> | --> | ||
---- | ---- | ||
This FAQ section will probably get longer over time. | This FAQ section will probably get longer over time. | ||
At the end of the day, people can survive '''and thrive''' without animal products, and it can be done [[cheap plant-based food|cheaply]] or [[expensive plant-based food|expensively]] or anything in between. | At the end of the day, people can survive '''and thrive''' without animal products, and it can be done [[cheap plant-based food|cheaply]] or [[expensive plant-based food|expensively]] or anything in between. | ||