Decarbonize the energy supply: Difference between revisions

From the change wiki
(Created page with "How to produce enough {{p2|energy|This includes more than just the status-quo of electricity production. It also includes all the additional electricity that would be needed to replace fossil fuels in vehicles and in industries.}} (for the world) without burning fossil fuels? {{minor|''This page is about the ongoing challenges involved.''}} ==The '''renewables''' approach {{light|(+ energy storage)}}== * Solar & wind power would have to be the main energy s...")
 
(Added space between headings)
 
(4 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
[[File:energy-usage-by-source.png|thumb|'''Status quo:''' The vast majority of the world's energy comes from fossil fuels. Don't be <s>fooled</s> misled by countries claiming "most of our electricity is renewable". Electricity is only one piece of the energy pie. Most cars & trucks are not electric. Most industries are not fully electric. When you look at the big picture, it's clear that we still have a long way to go.]]<!-- TALK: is there a way to make sure this image description doesn't become the intro to the page when viewed on mobile?
-->
How to produce enough {{p2|energy|This includes more than just the status-quo of electricity production. It also includes all the additional electricity that would be needed to replace fossil fuels in vehicles and in industries.}} (for the world) without burning [[fossil fuels]]?
How to produce enough {{p2|energy|This includes more than just the status-quo of electricity production. It also includes all the additional electricity that would be needed to replace fossil fuels in vehicles and in industries.}} (for the world) without burning [[fossil fuels]]?


Line 6: Line 8:
* [[Solar]] & [[wind power]] would have to be the main energy sources in ''most'' parts of the world.
* [[Solar]] & [[wind power]] would have to be the main energy sources in ''most'' parts of the world.
** Most people don't live near regions suitable for [[hydropower]] or [[geothermal power]]. {{talk|TODO: link to discussions about what regions they ''are'' suitable}}
** Most people don't live near regions suitable for [[hydropower]] or [[geothermal power]]. {{talk|TODO: link to discussions about what regions they ''are'' suitable}}
** [[Biofuels]] are a no-go, because they cause global [[hunger]] and [[deforestation]].&nbsp; [[Biomass waste]] is a fine alternative, but its global production rate is [[How much biomass waste is there?|fundamentally small]] compared to the fossil fuels we're trying to replace.
** [[Biofuels]] are a no-go, because they cause global [[hunger]] and [[deforestation]].&nbsp; [[Biomass waste]] is a fine alternative, but its production rate is [[How much biomass waste is there?|fundamentally small]] compared to the fossil fuels we're trying to replace.
<!-- ALT:** [[Biofuels]] cause global [[hunger]] and [[deforestation]], unless only [[biomass waste]] is used (which is in [[How much biomass waste is there?|very limited supply]]).-->
<!-- ALT:** [[Biofuels]] cause global [[hunger]] and [[deforestation]], unless only [[biomass waste]] is used (which is in [[How much biomass waste is there?|very limited supply]]).-->
<!-- ALT:** Global [[biomass waste]] production is fundamentally small compared to the fossil fuel energy we're trying to replace.-->
<!-- ALT:** Global [[biomass waste]] production is fundamentally small compared to the fossil fuel energy we're trying to replace.-->


* Most solar panels today would probably be '''unsustainable''' or even impossible to scale up, due to having [[solar panel minerals|too many scarce minerals in them]].
* Most solar panels today would probably be '''unsustainable''' or even impossible to scale up, due to having [[solar panel minerals|too many scarce minerals in them]].
** ''See discussion on'' [[solar panels made of abundant materials|alternatives to this]].
** <small>[[solar panels made of abundant materials|''See discussion on alternatives to this.'']]</small>


* Batteries [[How much short-term energy storage for solar?|''might'' be scalable enough]] to smooth out the '''day/night''' cycle of solar. {{x|Best bet would be either [[sodium-ion]] or [[iron redox flow batteries]].}}
* Batteries [[How much short-term energy storage for solar?|''might'' be scalable enough]] to smooth out the '''day/night''' cycle of solar. {{x|Best bet would be either [[sodium-ion]] or [[iron redox flow batteries]].}} {{talk|Re-work this section and include links like [[Can rooftop solar alone provide enough heating and cooling?]]}}
** But the '''seasonal''' fluctuations of wind & solar [[How much seasonal energy storage?|probably need ''far more'' energy storage capacity]].
** But the '''seasonal''' fluctuations of wind & solar [[How much seasonal energy storage?|probably need ''far more'' energy storage capacity]].
*** ''See discussion on'' [[What could provide enough seasonal energy storage?|other energy storage types and whether any could provide enough capacity]].
*** <small>[[What could provide enough seasonal energy storage?|''See discussion on other energy storage types - whether any could provide enough capacity.'']]</small>


<br />More discussions:
<br />More discussions:
Line 22: Line 24:


==The '''nuclear''' approach==
==The '''nuclear''' approach==
Considering the different types of nuclear power, it seems that '''[[thorium power]]''' is the one with the least problems. Here's a comparison:
Of all the different types of nuclear power, {{b|#6FF|'''thorium power'''}} seems to be the best bet:


{|class='wikitable'
{|class='wikitable'
Line 33: Line 35:
|-
|-
|[[Conventional nuclear power]] {{light|(status quo)}}
|[[Conventional nuclear power]] {{light|(status quo)}}
|{{rcell}} Problem
|style="background:#F66"|Problem
|Low risk
|Low risk
|{{rcell}} Problem
|style="background:#F66"|Problem
|-
|-
|[[Conventional small nuclear reactors]]
|Conventional small nuclear reactors
|{{rcell}} Problem
|style="background:#F66"|Problem
|{{rcell}} High risk
|style="background:#F66"|High risk
|{{rcell}} Problem
|style="background:#F66"|Problem
|-
|-
|[[Uranium-238 breeder reactors]] {{p|Additional benefit: Uranium-238 reactors would make use of existing nuclear waste, which has been left over from decades of conventional nuclear power.}}
|Uranium-238 breeder reactors {{p|Additional benefit: Uranium-238 reactors would make use of existing nuclear waste, which has been left over from decades of conventional nuclear power.}}
|Abundant
|Abundant
|{{rcell}} High risk
|style="background:#F66"|High risk
|Almost none
|Almost none
|-
|-
|[[Thorium-232 breeder reactors]]
|style="background:#6FF"|'''Thorium-232 breeder reactors'''
|Abundant
|style="background:#6FF"|'''Abundant'''
|Low risk
|style="background:#6FF"|'''Low risk'''
|Almost none
|style="background:#6FF"|'''Almost none'''
|-
|-
|[[Fusion]] <span style="background:#F66">(not viable yet)</span>
|[[Fusion]] {{b|#F66|(not viable yet)}}
|Abundant
|Abundant
|Low risk
|Low risk
|Almost none
|Almost none
<!-- OUTTAKE (uncomment this if we bring back the page links and actually make the pages this time:
|-
|-
|colspan=4|{{minor|^ For more details, follow these links in the leftmost column.}}
|colspan=4|{{minor|^ For more details, follow these links in the leftmost column.}}
-->
|}
|}


Line 87: Line 91:


==More discussions==
==More discussions==
{{empty}}
* [[How much electricity would it take?]]
{{talk|TODO: People also have other concerns about renewables and energy storage. I need to direct readers to pages that address those concerns.}}
<!-- TALK: People probably have other concerns about renewables, energy storage, etc. I need to direct readers to pages that address those concerns. This section might be a good place to put links. -->


==See also==
==See also==
* [[Phase out disposable plastic]] {{talk|Should add somewhere that besides energy & plastic, there are other uses of fossil fuels. Most of these uses '''do not''' need to be phased out (and they are also a '''relatively small fraction''' of the world's fossil fuel consumption).<br /><br />This talking point is important for debunking memes about "where would we be without oil!" etc.}}
* [[Phase out disposable plastic]] {{talk|Should add somewhere that besides energy & plastic, there are other uses of fossil fuels. Most of these uses '''do not''' need to be phased out (and they are also a '''relatively small fraction''' of the world's fossil fuel consumption).<br /><br />This talking point is important for debunking memes about "where would we be without oil!" etc.}}

Latest revision as of 07:30, 6 May 2026

Status quo: The vast majority of the world's energy comes from fossil fuels. Don't be fooled misled by countries claiming "most of our electricity is renewable". Electricity is only one piece of the energy pie. Most cars & trucks are not electric. Most industries are not fully electric. When you look at the big picture, it's clear that we still have a long way to go.

How to produce enough energy (for the world) without burning fossil fuels?

This page is about the ongoing challenges involved.

The renewables approach (+ energy storage)


More discussions:


The nuclear approach

Of all the different types of nuclear power, thorium power seems to be the best bet:

Type of nuclear power Problems if scaled up
Fuel scarcity Weapons proliferation Nuclear waste
Conventional nuclear power (status quo) Problem Low risk Problem
Conventional small nuclear reactors Problem High risk Problem
Uranium-238 breeder reactors Abundant High risk Almost none
Thorium-232 breeder reactors Abundant Low risk Almost none
Fusion (not viable yet) Abundant Low risk Almost none

Actions / discussions / next steps:


Vehicles - possible options

Battery-based electric vehicles (EVs)

  • Most EVs today use lithium-ion batteries (NMC type). Scaling these up is unsustainable due to the amount of cobalt in them.
    • Best alternatives (so far) hold somewhat less of a charge (i.e. the vehicle gets less range).
      • LFP batteries are cobalt-free but still lithium-based. Lithium scarcity would be somewhat a problem but not as bad as cobalt.
      • Sodium-ion batteries are made from abundant materials - they don't have any mineral-scarcity problem (probably). But they hold even less of a charge than LFP.
        • Sodium-ion batteries are quite new to the market (in 2024), and the hope is that they'll become a lot cheaper than existing batteries. That way, EVs could be cheap and durable, with the only tradeoff being the lack of range.[QUANTIFICATION needed] Probably still good enough for city/suburban living.
      • For city buses: LFP and sodium-ion are both perfectly fine. The lower energy-per-weight is not a problem, because buses need extra weight at the bottom anyway for stability.


Actions/discussions:


Hydrogen-powered vehicles

  • Hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles would be unsustainable to scale up, because of the amount of platinum & palladium in the fuel cells.
  • Hydrogen combustion vehicles don't have this problem, but their fuel-efficiency is lower.[QUANTIFICATION needed]

Ammonia-powered vehicles

This section has not been filled in yet.

More discussions

See also

  • Phase out disposable plastic